Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jaxgaret 04-14-07, 10:27 PM	There is a feat in Lost Empires of Faerun called Channel Charge. It lets one make a UMD check to cast a spell from a spell trigger item using one of the character's spell slots instead of burning a charge from the spell trigger item. Now, would you consider a Runestaff a Spell Trigger item, and thus valid to use with the Channel Charge feat? I believe the answer is no, but I am just making sure.
jaelis 04-14-07, 10:43 PM	I don't understand... what are you hoping the feat would do? You have to burn a spell anyway when you use a runestaff, and it doesn't have any charges. Anyway, a runestaff is clearly not a spell trigger item. For instance, casting a spell with a runestaff provokes an AoO as normal, uses your own ability mod and caster level, and requires all material and other components. None of these are true for spell trigger items (though regular staffs do have some exceptions, to be sure.) While I've argued that using a runestaff to cast a spell not on your class list should be treated like activating a spell trigger item for purposes of UMD, that doesn't mean a runestaff is a spell trigger item.
Jaxgaret 04-15-07, 10:40 AM	I don't understand... what are you hoping the feat would do? You have to burn a spell anyway when you use a runestaff, and it doesn't have any charges. Anyway, a runestaff is clearly not a spell trigger item. For instance, casting a spell with a runestaff provokes an AoO as normal, uses your own ability mod and caster level, and requires all material and other components. None of these are true for spell trigger items (though regular staffs do have some exceptions, to be sure.) While I've argued that using a runestaff to cast a spell not on your class list should be treated like activating a spell trigger item for purposes of UMD, that doesn't mean a runestaff is a spell trigger item. Hm. So you'd treat it like a spell trigger item for purposes of UMD, but not for other purposes. That doesn't sound like a consistent ruling. Wouldn't it be the same - for both or for neither? I'm not trying to bend the rules here, but trying to get a fair ruling. Channel Charge allows a spellcaster to use a spell slot in place of burning a charge on a spell trigger item. So in this case, the spellcaster would burn two spell slots (one from using the Runestaff, and one from using Channel Charge), but use up none of the daily charges on the Runestaff.
jaelis 04-15-07, 12:32 PM	My opinion is that a runestaff is not a spell trigger item, it is a new type of item that we don't have UMD rules for. I feel that the most logical way to make up rules for them is by analogy with spell trigger items, since they have a certain similarity. If someone else argued that they are more like scrolls, I would say that is reasonable too. So just because I think you should activate them like spell trigger items, that doesn't mean I think they are spell trigger items. But more fundamentally, runestaffs don't really have charges, they have uses per day. That's not the same, unless the wording of Channel Charge makes it apply to both. I don't think I would let Channel Charge apply to an eternal wand either (which clearly is a spell trigger item), unless there was pretty clear wording to allow it. On the other hand, I'll admit that I'm just quibbling about definitions. I doubt there's anything wrong with allowing it to work.
Jaxgaret 04-15-07, 01:16 PM	Thanks for your replies, jaelis :) I now understand why you are saying that it should be treated as a Spell Trigger item for UMD purposes, but not for other purposes, with your clarification that it is an entirely new type of item that is not explicitly covered in the current UMD rules. Accordingly, I agree with you that the Runestaff is not a spell trigger item and thus should not work with Channel Charge, but qualifies as a spell trigger-type item for purposes of being activated by UMD, which has been corroborated by multiple other board members. Again, thank you.