Sacred Vow "Of Poverty" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sacred Vow "Of Poverty" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
'G'
08-03-07, 11:07 PM Was flipping through the Book of Exalted Deeds looking for a way to improve a Sacred Fist build when I came upon the Sacred vow of Poverty. I was wondering if any one had used this feat or allowed it in their campaign and had some real experience with it.

For those of you who have not seen it it is a feat that allows for some pretty interesting abilites at the loss of all wealth, including magical items. The upside 10 exalted feats, AC10, NA+2, Deflection Bonus +4, no need to eat, drink, or breath, Attribute bonuses of +8,+6,+4,+2, exalted strike +5 all distributed over 20 lvls.

I get it "NO MAGICAL ITEMS OR WEALTH" but who would need them?

Any comments or thoughts.
TorgSmackie
08-03-07, 11:15 PM I read a long time ago a breakdown of the value of the benefits of vow of poverty at each level (how much it would cost to get items that do the same thing). I don't remember it verbatim, but I remember at low levels, VoP is slightly better than character wealth while from like 11th level on, VoP is equal or less than character wealth.

The character wealth page is DMG 135, FYI.
InkBlot
08-04-07, 01:32 AM I've played a VOP character, and while the vow was cool, it didn't make him more powerful than other party members. The best thing about it was being able to roleplay a character who sees relying on magic items as a hinderance to honing his body, mind, and soul - without being terribly gimped.

The bonuses are not better than what you could buy with standard wealth. In a very important way, they're far worse. You can customize the bonuses you get, beyond the bonus feats and which ability scores you boost. If you're a barbarian, you can't choose to give up the damage reduction and get an extra boost to strength instead; if you're a fighter, you can't choose to give up some of your stat bonuses to get extra magic weapon abilities; if you're a rogue, you can't choose to give up exalted strike to get competance bonuses to various important skills; et cetera.

Monk is one of the best classes, perhaps the best class, for Vow Of Poverty, but even a monk is lossing out because his Diamond Soul class feature means he's getting no value out of the Vow's Spell Resistance.

(Yay! I've been sigged!)
Jaxgaret
08-04-07, 01:58 AM I read a long time ago a breakdown of the value of the benefits of vow of poverty at each level (how much it would cost to get items that do the same thing). I don't remember it verbatim, but I remember at low levels, VoP is slightly better than character wealth while from like 11th level on, VoP is equal or less than character wealth.

The character wealth page is DMG 135, FYI.

Indeed. VoP has been calculated to be worth approximately 75-85% of standard wealth by level.

Also, love the sig. Very funny, InkBlot :)
TheAnthroDM
08-04-07, 02:02 AM I don't know what to say except...
Welcome to the Boards Newbie?
Razorstorm
08-04-07, 11:19 AM But since the Sacred Fist is Forbidden from using weapons, the style fits quite well. But you are also screwed out of scrolls or wands of ranged spells, since you have no ranged weapon options. I like the style a lot, since it creates an incredibly holy, supernatural character. I've actually been playing with the idea of the same build for quite a while.
Razorstorm
TorgSmackie
08-04-07, 12:17 PM Also, love the sig. Very funny, InkBlot :)
I read 'action figures' and I totally pictured Henett screaming something about a white dragon with blue eyes.
Dog_O_War
08-04-07, 02:42 PM I never bought BoED and have only read vow of poverty a couple times; does it require that you tithe? If not then I would say it is overpowering in general for the fact of the other players being far above their wealth per level quota.

From what I remember though, it wasn't all that bad when I fully took in all other accounts, though a little munchkin for low magic/item games. Also, you have to try to get the DM okay, which for VoP is like pulling teeth. This is according to my friends who have looked at it and said "NOT IN MY GAME!".

I personally (like my friends, but for different reasons) do not like it. But hey, we can't all be cool.
EvilVegan
08-04-07, 03:13 PM You still collect your share of the treasure and donate it.

Of course, there was one game I played a changeling rogue and I would always sprint ahead of our VoP monk and change myself into a representative of said charity, graciously accepting his donation. . .

He never did figure out why every time he donated money the recepient was always out of breath.
Jaxgaret
08-04-07, 05:31 PM Of course, there was one game I played a changeling rogue and I would always sprint ahead of our VoP monk and change myself into a representative of said charity, graciously accepting his donation. . .

He never did figure out why every time he donated money the recepient was always out of breath.

:heehee

I love it.
aelryinth
08-04-07, 05:50 PM the best VoP character is actually a druid. Druids sacrifice no mobility options and retain VOP bonuses in all forms.

A VoP monk can't fly, for instance.

A sorceror with Eschew Materials also makes for a good VOP...full spell capability and never having to deal with magic items can work out well for them, although it does cut down on using staves and wands for supplemental spells.

===Aelryinth
'G'
08-04-07, 06:28 PM Clearly the Vow allows for no maintainance of wealth, but obviously to obtain and destribute the wealth to the poor a character would have to carry the wealth back to those who need it. As is mentioned in the feat description. One can not carry swords, armor, wands, rings, or staves or any magical itens with the intent of use, but only with the use of finding a way to help the needy. Does this ,mean that if a character is dying and a comrade aids him with a healing potion, or in the middle of combat a comrade tells him to take a potion of say bears strength that the PC has gone against the eddicts of the Vow? If one were to find and read a Tome (increasing the inherent users ability score)and then give it away would this go against the Vow?

It is clear that Magical items may not be obtained with the intent of use, or continued use by the PC, but what of momentary use, IE your climbing the dragon horde, looking for the damsel you come upon a spear, the dragon returns and attacks, so you throw the spear at it grab the maiden and head for the door. The spear was magical, ou did not horde the item bt you did use it, does this go against the vow.
InkBlot
08-04-07, 11:16 PM G, there is a reason the Book Of Exalted Deeds is labled as mature game material. It requires anybody using it, both players and DM, to possess a high level of maturity in order to roleplay it without ruining the game. Think about what the vow of poverty feat represents, and your answers should become clear to you. If they do not, perhaps you should not be using the BoED.
StruckingFuggle
08-05-07, 02:02 AM G, there is a reason the Book Of Exalted Deeds is labled as mature game material. It requires anybody using it, both players and DM, to possess a high level of maturity in order to roleplay it without ruining the game. Think about what the vow of poverty feat represents, and your answers should become clear to you. If they do not, perhaps you should not be using the BoED.

Or you could just strip it of it's stupid boring annoying exalted status and use it anyway without it being broken...

Also. Requires maturity? *snerk* ... right. Maturity. e.e.
'G'
08-05-07, 02:11 AM G, there is a reason the Book Of Exalted Deeds is labled as mature game material. It requires anybody using it, both players and DM, to possess a high level of maturity in order to roleplay it without ruining the game. Think about what the vow of poverty feat represents, and your answers should become clear to you. If they do not, perhaps you should not be using the BoED.

I dare say that was agressively back handed. The true reason for the mature content lable for the BoED is due to its artwork.

The question I had, was does the feat allow for the use of one shot magic items that are not horded, bought, or sought, but happen to be of use at the time they are found or offered in a time of crisis or need.

Please excuse my ramblings, as I am only typing my questions at 2am, while on break at work.
Legdiwena
08-05-07, 02:31 AM As far as I can tell, someone can give you a potion to drink, but that's about it.
FrotzMe
08-05-07, 04:22 AM I dare say that was agressively back handed. The true reason for the mature content lable for the BoED is due to its artwork.

From the Introduction to BoED, pg 4:

"...the Book of Exalted Deeds is intended for mature players. That's not because it's filled with lurid depictions of depravity and torture. The material is not meant to shock or offend (though some topics may). Rather this book deals with tough questions of ethics and morality in a serious manner. It's intended to help players and Dungeon Masters wrestle with hard in-game issues..."

The question I had, was does the feat allow for the use of one shot magic items that are not horded, bought, or sought, but happen to be of use at the time they are found or offered in a time of crisis or need.

Short answer, no.

A character who knowingly uses a magic item is in clear violation of the Vow.

A character who unknowingly uses a magic item may be in violation of the Vow, depending on the nature of the PC's god (and, of course, the discretion of the DM). Were I your DM, I would take into consideration your god's disposition. More than likely, I would ding you. The only real question would be whether or not your PC could atone.
EvilVegan
08-05-07, 08:35 AM You can drink other people's potions if they feed them to you.
FrotzMe
08-05-07, 03:43 PM You can drink other people's potions if they feed them to you.

Well, I don't think they have to pour it down your throat for you - the feat's specific wording: "You may not use any magic item of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your behalf - you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly."
'G'
08-05-07, 10:29 PM Thanks Frotzme

I agree the nature of the work is dark, and with the exerpt from the book, though I believe that the 18+ rating that it is given by most book sellars is for its art and not its articles.

On the note of the Ding, that is what I thought but was just looking for confirmation. The feat does not specifically mention potions but it does talk of begging for spell components from friends, and implies that one could beg for lodging, or healing if needed, Especially when one reads the previous paragraphs about tithing.

I apreciate your honest and forthright response.
FrotzMe
08-05-07, 11:23 PM The feat does not specifically mention potions...

There are two parts of the BoED that cover Vow of Poverty. The portion you mention is the meaty part under "Voluntary Poverty" on pages 29 through 31; the other part is in the Feats section on page 48. The bit I quoted above that specifically mentions using a cure potion is in the Feat listing on page 48.

I apreciate your honest and forthright response.

De nada.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
'G' 08-03-07, 11:07 PM	Was flipping through the Book of Exalted Deeds looking for a way to improve a Sacred Fist build when I came upon the Sacred vow of Poverty. I was wondering if any one had used this feat or allowed it in their campaign and had some real experience with it. For those of you who have not seen it it is a feat that allows for some pretty interesting abilites at the loss of all wealth, including magical items. The upside 10 exalted feats, AC10, NA+2, Deflection Bonus +4, no need to eat, drink, or breath, Attribute bonuses of +8,+6,+4,+2, exalted strike +5 all distributed over 20 lvls. I get it "NO MAGICAL ITEMS OR WEALTH" but who would need them? Any comments or thoughts.
TorgSmackie 08-03-07, 11:15 PM	I read a long time ago a breakdown of the value of the benefits of vow of poverty at each level (how much it would cost to get items that do the same thing). I don't remember it verbatim, but I remember at low levels, VoP is slightly better than character wealth while from like 11th level on, VoP is equal or less than character wealth. The character wealth page is DMG 135, FYI.
InkBlot 08-04-07, 01:32 AM	I've played a VOP character, and while the vow was cool, it didn't make him more powerful than other party members. The best thing about it was being able to roleplay a character who sees relying on magic items as a hinderance to honing his body, mind, and soul - without being terribly gimped. The bonuses are not better than what you could buy with standard wealth. In a very important way, they're far worse. You can customize the bonuses you get, beyond the bonus feats and which ability scores you boost. If you're a barbarian, you can't choose to give up the damage reduction and get an extra boost to strength instead; if you're a fighter, you can't choose to give up some of your stat bonuses to get extra magic weapon abilities; if you're a rogue, you can't choose to give up exalted strike to get competance bonuses to various important skills; et cetera. Monk is one of the best classes, perhaps the best class, for Vow Of Poverty, but even a monk is lossing out because his Diamond Soul class feature means he's getting no value out of the Vow's Spell Resistance. (Yay! I've been sigged!)
Jaxgaret 08-04-07, 01:58 AM	I read a long time ago a breakdown of the value of the benefits of vow of poverty at each level (how much it would cost to get items that do the same thing). I don't remember it verbatim, but I remember at low levels, VoP is slightly better than character wealth while from like 11th level on, VoP is equal or less than character wealth. The character wealth page is DMG 135, FYI. Indeed. VoP has been calculated to be worth approximately 75-85% of standard wealth by level. Also, love the sig. Very funny, InkBlot :)
TheAnthroDM 08-04-07, 02:02 AM	I don't know what to say except... Welcome to the Boards Newbie?
Razorstorm 08-04-07, 11:19 AM	But since the Sacred Fist is Forbidden from using weapons, the style fits quite well. But you are also screwed out of scrolls or wands of ranged spells, since you have no ranged weapon options. I like the style a lot, since it creates an incredibly holy, supernatural character. I've actually been playing with the idea of the same build for quite a while. Razorstorm
TorgSmackie 08-04-07, 12:17 PM	Also, love the sig. Very funny, InkBlot :) I read 'action figures' and I totally pictured Henett screaming something about a white dragon with blue eyes.
Dog_O_War 08-04-07, 02:42 PM	I never bought BoED and have only read vow of poverty a couple times; does it require that you tithe? If not then I would say it is overpowering in general for the fact of the other players being far above their wealth per level quota. From what I remember though, it wasn't all that bad when I fully took in all other accounts, though a little munchkin for low magic/item games. Also, you have to try to get the DM okay, which for VoP is like pulling teeth. This is according to my friends who have looked at it and said "NOT IN MY GAME!". I personally (like my friends, but for different reasons) do not like it. But hey, we can't all be cool.
EvilVegan 08-04-07, 03:13 PM	You still collect your share of the treasure and donate it. Of course, there was one game I played a changeling rogue and I would always sprint ahead of our VoP monk and change myself into a representative of said charity, graciously accepting his donation. . . He never did figure out why every time he donated money the recepient was always out of breath.
Jaxgaret 08-04-07, 05:31 PM	Of course, there was one game I played a changeling rogue and I would always sprint ahead of our VoP monk and change myself into a representative of said charity, graciously accepting his donation. . . He never did figure out why every time he donated money the recepient was always out of breath. :heehee I love it.
aelryinth 08-04-07, 05:50 PM	the best VoP character is actually a druid. Druids sacrifice no mobility options and retain VOP bonuses in all forms. A VoP monk can't fly, for instance. A sorceror with Eschew Materials also makes for a good VOP...full spell capability and never having to deal with magic items can work out well for them, although it does cut down on using staves and wands for supplemental spells. ===Aelryinth
'G' 08-04-07, 06:28 PM	Clearly the Vow allows for no maintainance of wealth, but obviously to obtain and destribute the wealth to the poor a character would have to carry the wealth back to those who need it. As is mentioned in the feat description. One can not carry swords, armor, wands, rings, or staves or any magical itens with the intent of use, but only with the use of finding a way to help the needy. Does this ,mean that if a character is dying and a comrade aids him with a healing potion, or in the middle of combat a comrade tells him to take a potion of say bears strength that the PC has gone against the eddicts of the Vow? If one were to find and read a Tome (increasing the inherent users ability score)and then give it away would this go against the Vow? It is clear that Magical items may not be obtained with the intent of use, or continued use by the PC, but what of momentary use, IE your climbing the dragon horde, looking for the damsel you come upon a spear, the dragon returns and attacks, so you throw the spear at it grab the maiden and head for the door. The spear was magical, ou did not horde the item bt you did use it, does this go against the vow.
InkBlot 08-04-07, 11:16 PM	G, there is a reason the Book Of Exalted Deeds is labled as mature game material. It requires anybody using it, both players and DM, to possess a high level of maturity in order to roleplay it without ruining the game. Think about what the vow of poverty feat represents, and your answers should become clear to you. If they do not, perhaps you should not be using the BoED.
StruckingFuggle 08-05-07, 02:02 AM	G, there is a reason the Book Of Exalted Deeds is labled as mature game material. It requires anybody using it, both players and DM, to possess a high level of maturity in order to roleplay it without ruining the game. Think about what the vow of poverty feat represents, and your answers should become clear to you. If they do not, perhaps you should not be using the BoED. Or you could just strip it of it's stupid boring annoying exalted status and use it anyway without it being broken... Also. Requires maturity? snerk ... right. Maturity. e.e.
'G' 08-05-07, 02:11 AM	G, there is a reason the Book Of Exalted Deeds is labled as mature game material. It requires anybody using it, both players and DM, to possess a high level of maturity in order to roleplay it without ruining the game. Think about what the vow of poverty feat represents, and your answers should become clear to you. If they do not, perhaps you should not be using the BoED. I dare say that was agressively back handed. The true reason for the mature content lable for the BoED is due to its artwork. The question I had, was does the feat allow for the use of one shot magic items that are not horded, bought, or sought, but happen to be of use at the time they are found or offered in a time of crisis or need. Please excuse my ramblings, as I am only typing my questions at 2am, while on break at work.
Legdiwena 08-05-07, 02:31 AM	As far as I can tell, someone can give you a potion to drink, but that's about it.
FrotzMe 08-05-07, 04:22 AM	I dare say that was agressively back handed. The true reason for the mature content lable for the BoED is due to its artwork. From the Introduction to BoED, pg 4: "...the Book of Exalted Deeds is intended for mature players. That's not because it's filled with lurid depictions of depravity and torture. The material is not meant to shock or offend (though some topics may). Rather this book deals with tough questions of ethics and morality in a serious manner. It's intended to help players and Dungeon Masters wrestle with hard in-game issues..." The question I had, was does the feat allow for the use of one shot magic items that are not horded, bought, or sought, but happen to be of use at the time they are found or offered in a time of crisis or need. Short answer, no. A character who knowingly uses a magic item is in clear violation of the Vow. A character who unknowingly uses a magic item may be in violation of the Vow, depending on the nature of the PC's god (and, of course, the discretion of the DM). Were I your DM, I would take into consideration your god's disposition. More than likely, I would ding you. The only real question would be whether or not your PC could atone.
EvilVegan 08-05-07, 08:35 AM	You can drink other people's potions if they feed them to you.
FrotzMe 08-05-07, 03:43 PM	You can drink other people's potions if they feed them to you. Well, I don't think they have to pour it down your throat for you - the feat's specific wording: "You may not use any magic item of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your behalf - you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly."
'G' 08-05-07, 10:29 PM	Thanks Frotzme I agree the nature of the work is dark, and with the exerpt from the book, though I believe that the 18+ rating that it is given by most book sellars is for its art and not its articles. On the note of the Ding, that is what I thought but was just looking for confirmation. The feat does not specifically mention potions but it does talk of begging for spell components from friends, and implies that one could beg for lodging, or healing if needed, Especially when one reads the previous paragraphs about tithing. I apreciate your honest and forthright response.
FrotzMe 08-05-07, 11:23 PM	The feat does not specifically mention potions... There are two parts of the BoED that cover Vow of Poverty. The portion you mention is the meaty part under "Voluntary Poverty" on pages 29 through 31; the other part is in the Feats section on page 48. The bit I quoted above that specifically mentions using a cure potion is in the Feat listing on page 48. I apreciate your honest and forthright response. De nada.