Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StealthElite 11-16-07, 08:39 PM	In an upcoming games I will be playing a melee scout he will be using a spiked chain now the skills i plan to get from 1 - 6 are lvl 1: combat reflexes, exotic weapon(spiked chain) lvl 3: deft opportunist lvl 4(scout bonus feat): dodge Lvl 5(fighter): moblity lvl 6(fighter): Side step and Opportunistic tactician now Opportunishtic tactician and sidestep both say after a making an AoO you may take a 5 foot sep so with both of the feats could i take a 10 foot step and gain my skirmish with every AoO. would this work? also it never states that the extra 5 foot steps are limited to your normal movement so if i have 4 AoO could i move an extra 40 feet on top of my characters normal movement speed?
Trachmyr 11-16-07, 08:53 PM	First problem you have is that Exotic Weapon Proficiency requires a BAB of +1, and at 1st level your BAB is +0. You might be able to work around this if your starting at 3rd level or higher... but otherwise you won't be using a spiked chain. (Unless you start out as a fighter... but then you miss out on a lot of skill points)
StealthElite 11-16-07, 09:03 PM	sorry your right then fighter first two lvls 1(fighter):combat reflexes, Exotic WP(spiked chain),deft Opportunist 2(fighter):dodge 3(scout): moblity 6(scout): Side step and Opportunistic tactician My Dm has not decided if we will be starting out at lvl 2 or not but if he does then it will be scout lvl1, then two fighter lvls, then rest scout
Trachmyr 11-16-07, 09:08 PM	What books are Side step and Opportunistic tactician in?
StealthElite 11-16-07, 09:23 PM	Side step: mini handbook Opportunistic tactician: dragon magazine 340 p87
StealthElite 11-16-07, 09:35 PM	also does expert tactician stack i.e. if i get 4 AoOs do i get the +2 on my next AoO, then a +4,+6,+8 Expert tactician Prerequisites: Dex 13, Combat Reflexes, base attack bonus +2. Benefit: If you hit a creature with an attack of opportunity, you and all your allies gain a +2 circumstance bonus on melee attack rolls and damage rolls against that creature for 1 round. if i can move after every aoO thus makin g them constantly run in and out of my threatened area, then i could effeicitently give myself and my team a huge +# attack bonus
Trachmyr 11-16-07, 09:45 PM	OK... here's the problems I see. 1st, Side Step states that it is usable only once per round, but it does grant an extra 5' movement that dosen't count against your movement limit for your turn. So you can gain +5' this way, but only an extra 5'. 2nd, Opportunistic Tactician is up to your DM to allow as it is non-cannon. It says you can gain a free 5' step after an AoO, but your DM will have to determine if he'll allow it after EVERY AoO, if he'll allow it to stack with Side Step or if he'll allow the feat entirely. Personally, I feel that Side Step is the Cannon version of what appeared in Dragon magazine, I'd only allow one or the other... and limit it to one free 5' step per round. 3rd Problem, You don't gain Skirmish bonuses to damage on AoO, only attacks that occur DURING YOUR TURN. 4th Problem, According to the current errata governing Skirmish, extra movement gained outside of your turn will not activate your skirmish ability. You must move atleast 10' from where you were AT THE START OF YOUR TURN to gain skirmish bonuses. Sorry for the bad news. Errata and current rules governing Skirmish: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a Page 12: Skirmish (class feature) The second sentence of the skirmish class feature should read as follows (new text indicated in red): She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn. The extra damage applies only to attacks made after the scout has moved at least 10 feet. The skirmish ability cannot be used while mounted. This update should be made wherever the skirmish ability description is presented (see also pages 31, 56, and 177).
Trachmyr 11-16-07, 09:51 PM	Bonuses from expert tactician DO NOT STACK... as per the Rules Compendium: "Circumstance bonuses stack with each other unless the arise from essentially the same circumstance." This would be the same circumstance, so they would not stack... you only get the base +2 bonus.
ToastedAmphibian 11-17-07, 01:25 AM	3rd Problem, You don't gain Skirmish bonuses to damage on AoO, only attacks that occur DURING YOUR TURN. One round is teh SUM of all combatants TURNS She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn If a spell works for "One round" it begins to apply during the turn the caster finishes it, and ends just before the casters next action. THAT IS ONE ROUND. So if a scout moves 10 ft on her turn, she gets to add her extra damage to all attacks for the remainder of her turn and the rest of the ROUND, including any AoO. As for teh feats, i cant really say. However, if i were you, id go 1.scout 2.scout 3.scout 4.scout 5.fighter 6.scout Improved Skirmish (adds to your skirmish damage and AC bonus if you move atleast 20 ft. You need 2d6 +1 AC skirmish to qualify, which you gain at scout level 5 i think. Its in complete scoundrel) 7.fighter And just out of curiosity, why all this talk about moving when it isnt your turn? It isnt particularly necisary, and with a reach weapon youll probably want to be tripping them to keep them from attack you at all. Or use the "Stand Still" feat to stop them from reachign you. Either way you still get yoru skirmish if you moved on yoru turn. Your feats would be better used elsewhere. Mabey consider using them to get the spring attack feat tree, or to qualify for the dervish class (Awsome goodness to be found with a dancing dervish scout with a reach weapon)
Trachmyr 11-17-07, 07:11 AM	Skirmish damage isn't applied during a ROUND, it can apply only on your TURN. So when your TURN begins (i.e., Initiative count), you must move 10' to gain skirmish bonus. After your turn, you cannot gain skirmish damage (although you can gain AC), so any movement in that round beoomes a moot point... Then your TURN begins again, and you have to move another 10'.
ToastedAmphibian 11-19-07, 04:42 PM	Skirmish damage isn't applied during a ROUND, it can apply only on your TURN. So when your TURN begins (i.e., Initiative count), you must move 10' to gain skirmish bonus. After your turn, you cannot gain skirmish damage (although you can gain AC), so any movement in that round beoomes a moot point... Then your TURN begins again, and you have to move another 10'. Acording to what? As far as i know, it says every attack you make in a ROUND after moving 10ft from where you where at the start of your TURN gives you the extra damage. From the SRD The Combat Round Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world. A round presents an opportunity for each character involved in a combat situation to take an action. Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there. Each round of a combat uses the same initiative order. When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.) For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on. From the complete adventurer errata She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn. So, an example. We hjave a scout who acts at iniative 5 (He rolled really poorly, whatever) on his TURN he moves 10 feet. This is at iniative 5. All attacks he makes for the rest of teh ROUND deal his skirmish damage. A ROUND representing all actions taking place up untill the time that the iniative order RETURNS TO 5. He dosnt need to move on anyone elses turn to get his skirmish. He just has to move on his turn. I dont have my book with me, and as such i might just be making a douche of myself, but unless it specifically says in the skirmish description that the damage only applys on the scouts term, but that the AC persists then i dont know what the problem is.
StealthElite 11-20-07, 07:36 PM	This is what confuses me about skirmish, its slightly contradicting. Skirmish (Ex): A scout relies on mobility to deal extra damage and improve her defense. She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. The extra damage applies only to attacks taken during the scout’s turn. This extra damage increases by 1d6 for every four levels gained above 1st (2d6 at 5th, 3d6 at 9th, 4d6 at 13th, and 5d6 at 17th level). The extra damage only applies against living creatures that have a discernible anatomy. Undead, constructs, oozes, plants, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to extra damage from critical hits are not vulnerable to this additional damage. The scout must be able to see the target well eough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. Scouts can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 feet. At 3rd level, a scout gains a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. The bonus applies as soon as the scout has moved 10 feet, and lasts until the start of her next turn. This bonus improves by 1 for every four levels gained above 3rd (+2 at 7th, +3 at 11th, +4 at 15th, and +5 at 19th level). it says in the same text the extra damage applies during the entire round... but then says only during the turn does it apply.
dman11235 11-21-07, 07:37 AM	According to the errata, the second part has been taken out. It applies if you move at least 10' from where you started your turn at, anywhere in your turn, and applies for until the end of the round. See the errata quote above by the one who said that it doesn't do this for some proof, or just go look at the errata, it's in my sig. Sigh. Any other way would make no sense (at least, any suggested way), as in, really, really weak.
StealthElite 11-21-07, 09:28 AM	So skirmish would apply to AoOs My scout would make during a round as long as he moved 10 feet at some point or another. in other words if i move 10 feet in my turn and then get 2 AoO and move 10 more feet with the feats listed above I could acctivate improved skirmish for the rest of the round???
ToastedAmphibian 11-21-07, 03:43 PM	The "Two feats listed above" are completly not worth it. Just move 20ft on your turn. Then you can use thoes feats for something more benificial (And less abusive). If your DM somehow aproves both of thoes feats for your use, and it dosnt somehow conflict with the wording of improved skirmish, then you would get the benifite of improved skirmish on your second AoO. Then on your turn you would have to move agian. Yiou would probably be better off just learning "Stand Still" or workign your way up to combat brute. (Sundering cleave is a whole lot of fun with improved trip "Triped you, Free Atack! Broke your sword, Free Attack, broke your shield, Free Attack! Ok now ill hit you while yoru laying on the ground with no shield unarmed) Anywho, ya it would probably work but I'd say "isn't really worth it."