Sculpt Spell seems kinda.... odd? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sculpt Spell seems kinda.... odd? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Slayer_5
03-10-07, 04:38 AM Okay, so I picked up sculpt spell, and it seems kinda odd in changing the shape, but not the range, though it inherently changes the range of some spells.

I will provide two examples.

Today I used a sculpted Fireball. I wanted it in 4 10 foot cubes. My "balance sense" kicked in and told me they all had to be within 30 feet of each other, but no, apparently, it could be 4 10 foot cubes anywhere within Long range of me.

I can't explain why, but it just struck me as strange.

Next up, (and this is hypothetical, I haven't tried it)

I could turn Burning Hands from a 15 foot cone, into a 40 foot cone. That seems to be a pretty awesome boost, way more then just the +1 sculpting is...

But wait, if I wanted to turn my Burning Hands into a 20 foot radius spread, but Burning Hands has a 15 foot range, does this mean that I would always be hitting myself???

All in all, the feat seems wonky, since it doesn't seem to have any considerations given to the original range of the spell.

A) Is there any errata for it,
B) What other brokenly good uses are there for it?
Fireclave
03-10-07, 12:25 PM While the feat is good, it doesn't seem that broken to me. Take Fireball for example. 3rd level spell, 20ft radius. For +1 level, you could change fireball to take up a 120ft line. But then again, you could have just cast lightning bolt instead. You could change it into a 40ft cone, but the original area would have been bigger. You could change it into a cylinder, but spells at the same modified level, like Ice Storm, already have better ranges. And as for four 10ft cubes, Firebrand, a 5th level spell, has a similiar target scheme, but allows for more targets and more damage.

Granted, some spells will get a good boast from this feat, but not enough that I would warrant more than a +1 spell slot. Now to answer your other questions:

A) Checked the errata and there are no changes to the feat.
B) Probably not broken, but try these:
(Greater) Dispell Magic
Black Tentacles
Cloudkill
Cone of Cold
Acid Fog
ClementWillowbreaker
03-10-07, 04:33 PM The feat does not say anything about being able to ignore the range limits of a spell. A spell's point of origin must be in range, and any area extends beyond the max range is wasted without effect. So you could turn Burning Hands into a line, but it would be 15ft long. And turning it into a burst would mean its area has to overlap with yours. And in general, shapeable spells that make cubes have to be in contact with one another, so it would be sensible in absence of any other information to hold Sculpt to the same restriction.

Now, if you don't like this, you can fix the feat by replacing fixed ranges like that with Short/Medium/Long, whatever is sensible. The cones and lines have their own explicit ranges. Personally, I think that makes it far too good for +1, and not often enough an issue to bump the entire feat to +2 to allow it.

And if you think that is bad, arrange 4-10ft cubes around your character, ignoring anything past 10ft. A torus. Wonderful. Now cast Antimagic Field in that arrangement. Ick.

My personal fixes are, 1)follow the listed range, sometimes it sucks, sometimes it is good, like any spell, and 2) no emanations. No matter what, this feat needs some DM exposition.
Hsien
03-10-07, 04:37 PM I haven't had a chance to read the description yet; but one of our players is cliaming that it could be used to turn self only spells into area affects.
i.e Sculpt a Cure Light into a 20' area affect radius?
That doesn't seem reasonable to me.
ClementWillowbreaker
03-10-07, 04:41 PM I haven't had a chance to read the description yet; but one of our players is cliaming that it could be used to turn self only spells into area affects.
i.e Sculpt a Cure Light into a 20' area affect radius?
That doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Spells have to have an Area listing to be Sculpted. Cure doesn't. So at least that is out.
Slayer_5
03-10-07, 06:07 PM Okay, a few things.

First, The feat does not say anything about being able to ignore the range limits of a spell. A spell's point of origin must be in range, and any area extends beyond the max range is wasted without effect. So you could turn Burning Hands into a line, but it would be 15ft long.

This is wrong. It specifically says, it turns into a 120 foot line, or a 40 area cone etc etc. So, Burning hands as a 2nd level slot goes from 15 foot cone to 40 foot cone. Or a 120 foot line.

Also, while I agree that the spells effects are replicated by other spells, I am a sorceror. 8th level sorceror.

This feat means I don't NEED a lot of those spells.

The feat also doesn't say the 10 foot cubes need to touch.

Now, would a 120 foot line of Cloudkill then spread out? That would seem like the ultimate army killer!

This feat is AWESOME (From a players point of view) Especially when coupled with the metamagic specialization feat from CM.
Bopple
03-10-07, 07:48 PM it could be 4 10 foot cubes anywhere within Long range of me.
This is not true.
A cube should be connected to another cube, because area effects spread from the point of origin.
And there is one point of origin per spell.

This is possible;

E E
E E

This is not;
E E E E

E: A square with spell effect
paladin2019
03-10-07, 11:00 PM The point of the feat is to change the way a spell's area is used, to drop a fireball on a melee and have your allies' spaces unaffected for example. Thus, not contiguous areas of effect seem reasonable to me.

As to the feat itself, does it specifically say that the metamagicked feat ignores or changes its normal range limits?
ShinAkuma2
03-11-07, 04:16 AM It doesn't. This is why we have questions about it.
Bopple
03-11-07, 05:09 AM All the area effects have the point of origin.
And the area spells spread or emanate from the point of origin, no matter what kind of shape you are making with it.
Thus, sculpted effect should be contiguous, unless the feat description says otherwise.
dragynson1
03-11-07, 05:38 AM just a few spells that work GREAT with this feat.

Source: Complete Arcane
Pre-requisite: Any metamagic feat
Benefit: You can modify an area spell by changing the area to either:
Cylinder (10' radius, 30' high)
40' cone
Four 10' cubes
20' radius spread
or a 120' line
For the cost of one spell level.

Note: This will not change the origin of the spell. E.g: Color spray originates from you.same with lightning bolt A sculpted color spray or lightning bolt in a 20' radius will include you at the center. 4 10 foot cubes is a decent method around it for lines, cones are the hardest to change to anything but lines

Selected PHB spells that would benefit greatly from Sculpt Spell:

Grease (from 4 squares to 24 in a line)
Burning hands (from 6 squares to 24 in a line)
Color spray (ditto)
concecrate(desecrate)
Sound burst
flame strike
entangle
faerie fire
Glitterdust
Web
Gust of wind
Shatter
Pyrotechnics
darkness
hypnotic pattern
shatter
silence
confusion
crushing despair
haste
slow
SHOUT
Dispel magic
Mind fog
song of discord
Magic circle vs evil, summoned monsters? 120 line they cant cross
Sleet storm
Stinking cloud
Fireball
Lightning bolt
ice storm
globe of invulnerability
black tentacles
fear
cloudkill
cone of cold
antimagic feild
PRISMATIC SPRAY
dragynson1
03-11-07, 05:44 AM just a few spells that work GREAT with this feat.

Source: Complete Arcane
Pre-requisite: Any metamagic feat
Benefit: You can modify an area spell by changing the area to either:
Cylinder (10' radius, 30' high)
40' cone
Four 10' cubes
20' radius spread
or a 120' line
For the cost of one spell level.

Note: This will not change the origin of the spell. E.g: Color spray originates from you.same with lightning bolt A sculpted color spray or lightning bolt in a 20' radius will include you at the center. 4 10 foot cubes is a decent method around it for lines, cones are the hardest to change to anything but lines

Selected PHB spells that would benefit greatly from Sculpt Spell:

Grease (from 4 squares to 24 in a line)
Burning hands (from 6 squares to 24 in a line)
Color spray (ditto)
concecrate(desecrate)
Sound burst
flame strike
entangle
faerie fire
Glitterdust
Web
Gust of wind
Shatter
Pyrotechnics
darkness
hypnotic pattern
shatter
silence
confusion
crushing despair
haste
slow
SHOUT
Dispel magic
Mind fog
song of discord
Magic circle vs evil, summoned monsters? 120 line they cant cross
Sleet storm
Stinking cloud
Fireball
Lightning bolt
ice storm
globe of invulnerability
black tentacles
fear
cloudkill
cone of cold
antimagic feild
PRISMATIC SPRAY

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slayer_5 03-10-07, 04:38 AM	Okay, so I picked up sculpt spell, and it seems kinda odd in changing the shape, but not the range, though it inherently changes the range of some spells. I will provide two examples. Today I used a sculpted Fireball. I wanted it in 4 10 foot cubes. My "balance sense" kicked in and told me they all had to be within 30 feet of each other, but no, apparently, it could be 4 10 foot cubes anywhere within Long range of me. I can't explain why, but it just struck me as strange. Next up, (and this is hypothetical, I haven't tried it) I could turn Burning Hands from a 15 foot cone, into a 40 foot cone. That seems to be a pretty awesome boost, way more then just the +1 sculpting is... But wait, if I wanted to turn my Burning Hands into a 20 foot radius spread, but Burning Hands has a 15 foot range, does this mean that I would always be hitting myself??? All in all, the feat seems wonky, since it doesn't seem to have any considerations given to the original range of the spell. A) Is there any errata for it, B) What other brokenly good uses are there for it?
Fireclave 03-10-07, 12:25 PM	While the feat is good, it doesn't seem that broken to me. Take Fireball for example. 3rd level spell, 20ft radius. For +1 level, you could change fireball to take up a 120ft line. But then again, you could have just cast lightning bolt instead. You could change it into a 40ft cone, but the original area would have been bigger. You could change it into a cylinder, but spells at the same modified level, like Ice Storm, already have better ranges. And as for four 10ft cubes, Firebrand, a 5th level spell, has a similiar target scheme, but allows for more targets and more damage. Granted, some spells will get a good boast from this feat, but not enough that I would warrant more than a +1 spell slot. Now to answer your other questions: A) Checked the errata and there are no changes to the feat. B) Probably not broken, but try these: (Greater) Dispell Magic Black Tentacles Cloudkill Cone of Cold Acid Fog
ClementWillowbreaker 03-10-07, 04:33 PM	The feat does not say anything about being able to ignore the range limits of a spell. A spell's point of origin must be in range, and any area extends beyond the max range is wasted without effect. So you could turn Burning Hands into a line, but it would be 15ft long. And turning it into a burst would mean its area has to overlap with yours. And in general, shapeable spells that make cubes have to be in contact with one another, so it would be sensible in absence of any other information to hold Sculpt to the same restriction. Now, if you don't like this, you can fix the feat by replacing fixed ranges like that with Short/Medium/Long, whatever is sensible. The cones and lines have their own explicit ranges. Personally, I think that makes it far too good for +1, and not often enough an issue to bump the entire feat to +2 to allow it. And if you think that is bad, arrange 4-10ft cubes around your character, ignoring anything past 10ft. A torus. Wonderful. Now cast Antimagic Field in that arrangement. Ick. My personal fixes are, 1)follow the listed range, sometimes it sucks, sometimes it is good, like any spell, and 2) no emanations. No matter what, this feat needs some DM exposition.
Hsien 03-10-07, 04:37 PM	I haven't had a chance to read the description yet; but one of our players is cliaming that it could be used to turn self only spells into area affects. i.e Sculpt a Cure Light into a 20' area affect radius? That doesn't seem reasonable to me.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-10-07, 04:41 PM	I haven't had a chance to read the description yet; but one of our players is cliaming that it could be used to turn self only spells into area affects. i.e Sculpt a Cure Light into a 20' area affect radius? That doesn't seem reasonable to me. Spells have to have an Area listing to be Sculpted. Cure doesn't. So at least that is out.
Slayer_5 03-10-07, 06:07 PM	Okay, a few things. First, The feat does not say anything about being able to ignore the range limits of a spell. A spell's point of origin must be in range, and any area extends beyond the max range is wasted without effect. So you could turn Burning Hands into a line, but it would be 15ft long. This is wrong. It specifically says, it turns into a 120 foot line, or a 40 area cone etc etc. So, Burning hands as a 2nd level slot goes from 15 foot cone to 40 foot cone. Or a 120 foot line. Also, while I agree that the spells effects are replicated by other spells, I am a sorceror. 8th level sorceror. This feat means I don't NEED a lot of those spells. The feat also doesn't say the 10 foot cubes need to touch. Now, would a 120 foot line of Cloudkill then spread out? That would seem like the ultimate army killer! This feat is AWESOME (From a players point of view) Especially when coupled with the metamagic specialization feat from CM.
Bopple 03-10-07, 07:48 PM	it could be 4 10 foot cubes anywhere within Long range of me. This is not true. A cube should be connected to another cube, because area effects spread from the point of origin. And there is one point of origin per spell. This is possible; E E E E This is not; E E E E E: A square with spell effect
paladin2019 03-10-07, 11:00 PM	The point of the feat is to change the way a spell's area is used, to drop a fireball on a melee and have your allies' spaces unaffected for example. Thus, not contiguous areas of effect seem reasonable to me. As to the feat itself, does it specifically say that the metamagicked feat ignores or changes its normal range limits?
ShinAkuma2 03-11-07, 04:16 AM	It doesn't. This is why we have questions about it.
Bopple 03-11-07, 05:09 AM	All the area effects have the point of origin. And the area spells spread or emanate from the point of origin, no matter what kind of shape you are making with it. Thus, sculpted effect should be contiguous, unless the feat description says otherwise.
dragynson1 03-11-07, 05:38 AM	just a few spells that work GREAT with this feat. Source: Complete Arcane Pre-requisite: Any metamagic feat Benefit: You can modify an area spell by changing the area to either: Cylinder (10' radius, 30' high) 40' cone Four 10' cubes 20' radius spread or a 120' line For the cost of one spell level. Note: This will not change the origin of the spell. E.g: Color spray originates from you.same with lightning bolt A sculpted color spray or lightning bolt in a 20' radius will include you at the center. 4 10 foot cubes is a decent method around it for lines, cones are the hardest to change to anything but lines Selected PHB spells that would benefit greatly from Sculpt Spell: Grease (from 4 squares to 24 in a line) Burning hands (from 6 squares to 24 in a line) Color spray (ditto) concecrate(desecrate) Sound burst flame strike entangle faerie fire Glitterdust Web Gust of wind Shatter Pyrotechnics darkness hypnotic pattern shatter silence confusion crushing despair haste slow SHOUT Dispel magic Mind fog song of discord Magic circle vs evil, summoned monsters? 120 line they cant cross Sleet storm Stinking cloud Fireball Lightning bolt ice storm globe of invulnerability black tentacles fear cloudkill cone of cold antimagic feild PRISMATIC SPRAY
dragynson1 03-11-07, 05:44 AM	just a few spells that work GREAT with this feat. Source: Complete Arcane Pre-requisite: Any metamagic feat Benefit: You can modify an area spell by changing the area to either: Cylinder (10' radius, 30' high) 40' cone Four 10' cubes 20' radius spread or a 120' line For the cost of one spell level. Note: This will not change the origin of the spell. E.g: Color spray originates from you.same with lightning bolt A sculpted color spray or lightning bolt in a 20' radius will include you at the center. 4 10 foot cubes is a decent method around it for lines, cones are the hardest to change to anything but lines Selected PHB spells that would benefit greatly from Sculpt Spell: Grease (from 4 squares to 24 in a line) Burning hands (from 6 squares to 24 in a line) Color spray (ditto) concecrate(desecrate) Sound burst flame strike entangle faerie fire Glitterdust Web Gust of wind Shatter Pyrotechnics darkness hypnotic pattern shatter silence confusion crushing despair haste slow SHOUT Dispel magic Mind fog song of discord Magic circle vs evil, summoned monsters? 120 line they cant cross Sleet storm Stinking cloud Fireball Lightning bolt ice storm globe of invulnerability black tentacles fear cloudkill cone of cold antimagic feild PRISMATIC SPRAY