Sense motive and the undead and sharing pain [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sense motive and the undead and sharing pain [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Netjack
04-11-08, 08:14 PM Can you use sense motive on the undead? They are immune to mind affects, but you arn't effecting their mind so much as you are trying to sense something from them.

Also, can you use sense motive on creatures/characters to tell what level they are at, or if they are "tough" or "weak" to you, if not, then what does that, also can it be used on the undead.

Another question, my group came up across a monster that apparently does some type of ability that, after which, when you attack him, the damage you do will hurt one of your party members instead, he of course, activates the ability on his turn. The effect wares off if the person in question dies, but then he picks a new target. He is what you would consider a "boss" character, so he does it as a free action. This might be a DM creation ability, but how would you handle this? He apparently has an item with a demonic eye on it that is alive. We can destroy it without hurting our selfs, and he will regenerate it, after which he will scream in pain. My guess if we are suppose to attack it and not him.

I believe I've gotten off point, is there such an ability that lets you give the damage dealt to you to someone else, and if there is, how would one avoid this damage. There was no save on if as far as I can tell.
StruckingFuggle
04-11-08, 08:49 PM On the creature, maybe what you're supposed to do is defeat it without destroying it, someway or another, of which I'm sure there are many even if none particularly come directly to mind.
ciaran
04-13-08, 03:20 AM I would let a PC attempt a sense motive on any creature. Even undead. Mindless undead have very little to share so perhaps it would be a wasted action. However, you might be able to determine that the fire giant skeleton is guarding a particular part of the room, for example, but nothing in the way of his motives.
Mad_Jack
04-13-08, 04:13 AM You can make a sense motive roll on a rock if you want to. It's not a magical ability or anything, just you trying to figure something out. It doesn't allow you to read their mind or even to get an idea of what they're thinking.
On a successful roll made specifically for the purpose, you can get a general hunch about whether or not somebody's trustworthy, or if they've been enchanted or charmed. The main purpose of sense motive is to determine if someone's lying, or to keep them from bluffing you in combat.
It will allow you to figure out how tough someone is in relation to you - the rules are in Complete Adventurer.
Note that one roll won't give you all of these things - each separate determination requires a roll specifically for that purpose.
elonin
04-13-08, 03:17 PM I would allow possible success on a sense motive check vs. undead, though with a conditional modifier.
justicar347
04-14-08, 11:07 AM Well, we have three questions to answer here.

You can use Sense Motive against undead. You are just trying to determine what their motives are or if they are lying based on body language and what they say. You can also use Bluff and Diplomacy on them because it is just you trying to sway them with words not enchant them with a mind-affecting effect. Intimidate is argueable depending on whether or not you believe undead are capable of fear.

There are rules for useing Sense Motive to determine the relative power of a creature compared to you. I believe they are in Complete Adventurer.

You probably shouldn't fight this BBG head on. The best solution is to beat him without injuring him such as with grappling or an imprisonment spell. You also could try attacking from a distance if his power has a limited range, ambushing him, before he can use it, or fighting in an antimagic field. Attacking the demonic eye is an option, I would recomend using some divinations to find his weakness.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Netjack 04-11-08, 08:14 PM	Can you use sense motive on the undead? They are immune to mind affects, but you arn't effecting their mind so much as you are trying to sense something from them. Also, can you use sense motive on creatures/characters to tell what level they are at, or if they are "tough" or "weak" to you, if not, then what does that, also can it be used on the undead. Another question, my group came up across a monster that apparently does some type of ability that, after which, when you attack him, the damage you do will hurt one of your party members instead, he of course, activates the ability on his turn. The effect wares off if the person in question dies, but then he picks a new target. He is what you would consider a "boss" character, so he does it as a free action. This might be a DM creation ability, but how would you handle this? He apparently has an item with a demonic eye on it that is alive. We can destroy it without hurting our selfs, and he will regenerate it, after which he will scream in pain. My guess if we are suppose to attack it and not him. I believe I've gotten off point, is there such an ability that lets you give the damage dealt to you to someone else, and if there is, how would one avoid this damage. There was no save on if as far as I can tell.
StruckingFuggle 04-11-08, 08:49 PM	On the creature, maybe what you're supposed to do is defeat it without destroying it, someway or another, of which I'm sure there are many even if none particularly come directly to mind.
ciaran 04-13-08, 03:20 AM	I would let a PC attempt a sense motive on any creature. Even undead. Mindless undead have very little to share so perhaps it would be a wasted action. However, you might be able to determine that the fire giant skeleton is guarding a particular part of the room, for example, but nothing in the way of his motives.
Mad_Jack 04-13-08, 04:13 AM	You can make a sense motive roll on a rock if you want to. It's not a magical ability or anything, just you trying to figure something out. It doesn't allow you to read their mind or even to get an idea of what they're thinking. On a successful roll made specifically for the purpose, you can get a general hunch about whether or not somebody's trustworthy, or if they've been enchanted or charmed. The main purpose of sense motive is to determine if someone's lying, or to keep them from bluffing you in combat. It will allow you to figure out how tough someone is in relation to you - the rules are in Complete Adventurer. Note that one roll won't give you all of these things - each separate determination requires a roll specifically for that purpose.
elonin 04-13-08, 03:17 PM	I would allow possible success on a sense motive check vs. undead, though with a conditional modifier.
justicar347 04-14-08, 11:07 AM	Well, we have three questions to answer here. You can use Sense Motive against undead. You are just trying to determine what their motives are or if they are lying based on body language and what they say. You can also use Bluff and Diplomacy on them because it is just you trying to sway them with words not enchant them with a mind-affecting effect. Intimidate is argueable depending on whether or not you believe undead are capable of fear. There are rules for useing Sense Motive to determine the relative power of a creature compared to you. I believe they are in Complete Adventurer. You probably shouldn't fight this BBG head on. The best solution is to beat him without injuring him such as with grappling or an imprisonment spell. You also could try attacking from a distance if his power has a limited range, ambushing him, before he can use it, or fighting in an antimagic field. Attacking the demonic eye is an option, I would recomend using some divinations to find his weakness.