Setting the DC to solve a puzzle [Archive] - Wizards Community

Setting the DC to solve a puzzle [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheGogmagog
06-06-07, 08:53 AM The situation is our party came up with a puzzle for the BBEG. The DM knows how we did it and approves doesn't want to arbitrarily assume the BBEG figured it out. Hence the need to set a DC for those of you who read the title and thought it shouldn't be a skill check but role played.

Best case I'm thinking: The PC's spent a day figuring it out (similar to taking 20 to the Intelligence check). Four PC's contributed +2 aid another three times, plus the leaders Intelligence bonus. This would max around DC 28 intelligence check.

I can't recall the DMG suggested DC's, but DC 30 skill check sounds like a good nigh-impossible task. I also seem to recall a suggestion of DC 15 when you don't know what to set. I believe there is also a rule that 'usually' only two people can aid in a task, but that's how many players contributed to the solution so I'm thinking this would be a fair to assume the PC's also contributed. With the reduced starting DC 15, the result would be DC 23. A respectfully clever trick.

The PC's pulled the trick on the BBEG once, and needs to do it twice more. I figure it would be fair to get a +4 modifier after he sees the trick the second time.
Novacat
06-06-07, 09:19 AM The situation is our party came up with a puzzle for the BBEG. The DM knows how we did it and approves doesn't want to arbitrarily assume the BBEG figured it out. Hence the need to set a DC for those of you who read the title and thought it shouldn't be a skill check but role played.

Best case I'm thinking: The PC's spent a day figuring it out (similar to taking 20 to the Intelligence check). Four PC's contributed +2 aid another three times, plus the leaders Intelligence bonus. This would max around DC 28 intelligence check.

I can't recall the DMG suggested DC's, but DC 30 skill check sounds like a good nigh-impossible task. I also seem to recall a suggestion of DC 15 when you don't know what to set. I believe there is also a rule that 'usually' only two people can aid in a task, but that's how many players contributed to the solution so I'm thinking this would be a fair to assume the PC's also contributed. With the reduced starting DC 15, the result would be DC 23. A respectfully clever trick.

The PC's pulled the trick on the BBEG once, and needs to do it twice more. I figure it would be fair to get a +4 modifier after he sees the trick the second time.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I would say closer to a +8 if it's the same trick again. Repetition is not recommended in mind-games.
TheGogmagog
06-06-07, 12:22 PM Think of it more as a magic trick, without Penn and Teller showing you how it's done.

For example; I recently watched the movie 'The prestige' with different ways to teleport yourself across a distance faster than you could have reasonably traveled. The movie was set in the 'real world', but with the introduction of a magical setting the number of ways of performing this trick begin with some obvious spells like teleport/dimension door. Then you get some less obvious spells like time stop, shapechange or haste that stretch the perception of what's 'reasonable'.

The teleporting man, isn't our trick, it's just an example. For the first 'trick' he wasn't expecting it. There are a number of ways the trick could be done. The question is does he come up with the same way we did it or not. If not, after watching it a second time he'll be looking for the trick, but isn't guaranteed to figure it out while watching it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheGogmagog 06-06-07, 08:53 AM	The situation is our party came up with a puzzle for the BBEG. The DM knows how we did it and approves doesn't want to arbitrarily assume the BBEG figured it out. Hence the need to set a DC for those of you who read the title and thought it shouldn't be a skill check but role played. Best case I'm thinking: The PC's spent a day figuring it out (similar to taking 20 to the Intelligence check). Four PC's contributed +2 aid another three times, plus the leaders Intelligence bonus. This would max around DC 28 intelligence check. I can't recall the DMG suggested DC's, but DC 30 skill check sounds like a good nigh-impossible task. I also seem to recall a suggestion of DC 15 when you don't know what to set. I believe there is also a rule that 'usually' only two people can aid in a task, but that's how many players contributed to the solution so I'm thinking this would be a fair to assume the PC's also contributed. With the reduced starting DC 15, the result would be DC 23. A respectfully clever trick. The PC's pulled the trick on the BBEG once, and needs to do it twice more. I figure it would be fair to get a +4 modifier after he sees the trick the second time.
Novacat 06-06-07, 09:19 AM	The situation is our party came up with a puzzle for the BBEG. The DM knows how we did it and approves doesn't want to arbitrarily assume the BBEG figured it out. Hence the need to set a DC for those of you who read the title and thought it shouldn't be a skill check but role played. Best case I'm thinking: The PC's spent a day figuring it out (similar to taking 20 to the Intelligence check). Four PC's contributed +2 aid another three times, plus the leaders Intelligence bonus. This would max around DC 28 intelligence check. I can't recall the DMG suggested DC's, but DC 30 skill check sounds like a good nigh-impossible task. I also seem to recall a suggestion of DC 15 when you don't know what to set. I believe there is also a rule that 'usually' only two people can aid in a task, but that's how many players contributed to the solution so I'm thinking this would be a fair to assume the PC's also contributed. With the reduced starting DC 15, the result would be DC 23. A respectfully clever trick. The PC's pulled the trick on the BBEG once, and needs to do it twice more. I figure it would be fair to get a +4 modifier after he sees the trick the second time. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I would say closer to a +8 if it's the same trick again. Repetition is not recommended in mind-games.
TheGogmagog 06-06-07, 12:22 PM	Think of it more as a magic trick, without Penn and Teller showing you how it's done. For example; I recently watched the movie 'The prestige' with different ways to teleport yourself across a distance faster than you could have reasonably traveled. The movie was set in the 'real world', but with the introduction of a magical setting the number of ways of performing this trick begin with some obvious spells like teleport/dimension door. Then you get some less obvious spells like time stop, shapechange or haste that stretch the perception of what's 'reasonable'. The teleporting man, isn't our trick, it's just an example. For the first 'trick' he wasn't expecting it. There are a number of ways the trick could be done. The question is does he come up with the same way we did it or not. If not, after watching it a second time he'll be looking for the trick, but isn't guaranteed to figure it out while watching it.