Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mindolin 08-13-07, 07:56 PM	Okay everyone, I'm thinking of starting a Naruto D&D game soon, and was having some problems with deciding how to do the Kekkai Genkai, before deciding to do them as Heritage feats, like the Fey, Demon, and Dragon heritages in Complete Mage and Arcane. Just wanted to get some people's ideas on it and maybe some help balancing them. I'm starting with the Sharingan and hoping to get to some of the others later on. One Tomoe Sharingan PreReqs: Member of Uchiha clan, 3rd Character level. The Sharingan develops in you, and you gain a +2 bonus on Spot checks and Spellcraft checks, a +1 bonus on saves against directly harmful illusions, such as Phantasmal Killer, but not on, as an example, an illusionary floor over a pit. Special: You may gain this feat even if not a member of the Uchiha clan, provided you can somehow find a near death Uchiha who is willing to grant you his eyes. Good luck not having them kill you. Two Tomoe Sharingan Prereqs: Member of Uchiha clan, One Tomoe Sharingan. 5th character level, able to cast 2nd level spells. The character's sharingan evolves, to where each eye now has two tomoe. The character immediatly gains the spells Dispel Magic(Counterspell only,counts as 2nd level spell) and Suggestion. The bonus to spot and spellcraft checks increase to +3, and the character gains the ability to use a spell that is used against him, regardless of if it affects him. The spell to be learned must appear on the character's class spell list, and can only be learned if the character has an open spells known slot, or is able to learn all spells of a particular level. So what do you all think, and please try to keep the comments that anime and D&D don't mix to yourselves, if done right you can make balanced anime characters.
Meikle_641 08-13-07, 09:46 PM	A friend of mine made a whole d20 system for Naruto, including Sharingan stats. Of course, some of the details are rule specific, but hey. http://www.narutod20.com/
Mindolin 08-13-07, 10:46 PM	I know, but am planning a D&D game, I'm not really interested in a D20 Modern game.
unusualsuspect 08-14-07, 12:46 AM	Check out the Psionics forum, there's a thread there that has psionic versions of Naruto characters.
Mindolin 08-14-07, 08:45 AM	I know about the Psionic Naruto thread as well. I am not interested in using just psionics for it, as I am wokring on making it possible for everyone to use the techniques, not just the psionic characters or spellcasters. Will anyone give some feedback on this, rather than tell me where I can go to find something else like it? Also, what do people think, should I have the Spellcraft bonus with Sharingan, or should I grant a +1 bonus on Initiative with it?
Grumman 08-14-07, 10:29 AM	I know about the Psionic Naruto thread as well. I am not interested in using just psionics for it, as I am wokring on making it possible for everyone to use the techniques, not just the psionic characters or spellcasters. I think the idea is that everyone would play a psionic character, using the psionics rules to represent the different jutsu. Will anyone give some feedback on this, rather than tell me where I can go to find something else like it? It seems more-or-less balanced, but I don't know why you are set on reinventing the wheel.
Mindolin 08-14-07, 01:55 PM	The first system they decided to tell me to play is D20 Modern. As I am on the D&D boards, it is probably because I want to play D&D, otherwise I would be on the D20 Modern boards. The other one, while pretty good, is just for psionics, while I am working more on arcane, as well as using Tome of Battle. Also, the Kekkai Genkai for the psionics is just taking certain powers, which doesn't show the fact that you can only learn them if you are a member of a certain family. The heritage feats do that. Besides, I want these to be played from level 1 onward, which doesn't really work for powers that require you to be upwards of level 9. I am not reinventing the wheel, simply making usable for games that start at low levels.
claypigeons 08-14-07, 04:01 PM	The first system they decided to tell me to play is D20 Modern. As I am on the D&D boards, it is probably because I want to play D&D, otherwise I would be on the D20 Modern boards. The other one, while pretty good, is just for psionics, while I am working more on arcane, as well as using Tome of Battle. Also, the Kekkai Genkai for the psionics is just taking certain powers, which doesn't show the fact that you can only learn them if you are a member of a certain family. The heritage feats do that. Besides, I want these to be played from level 1 onward, which doesn't really work for powers that require you to be upwards of level 9. I am not reinventing the wheel, simply making usable for games that start at low levels. No, you are reinventing the wheel. You can't play any of the main Naruto Genin from level one. Even a 'basic' genin will have a few class levels. The amount of feats you will need to mimic some of the characters is ridiculous. Sure, you can copy the Sharingan, and maybe even in the Byakugan... But what about specific people? What about Kakashi? How will you justify people with the Sharingan being able to learn every jutsu just by watching them (barring Kekkai Genkai, of course).
Mindolin 08-14-07, 05:37 PM	They do not learn every jutsu, they can copy it as it is being done. The way I saw it was that Sasuke was observing how Lee did what he did, and used an open spell slot to copy it, seeing as how he probably leveled up after the fight with Orochimaru. He chose to learn Lee's trick, as it was something he had already worked out, and so spent the spell slot on being able to use it. You seem to keep going on about how I am reinventing the wheel. Okay, how do you see it as me reinventing the wheel. One idea was from a different system, though still D20, and was a template, the other was a number of psionic powers that anyone can take, meaning that Naruto could gain the Sharingan their way. How am I reinventing the wheel, by making it something akin to what it actually is represented as in the manga?
claypigeons 08-14-07, 06:02 PM	How am I reinventing the wheel, by making it something akin to what it actually is represented as in the manga? The psionic Naruto builds do exactly that. You're inventing a whole system to copy what someone else has already done. Reinventing the wheel.
Mindolin 08-14-07, 06:27 PM	Okay, can you tell the difference between feats and psionic powers, because I can, and they are different. Sure, psionic powers can work, but they are horribly inefficient in a case like this. And besides, the campaign I am planning is open to every D&D class, not just the psionic classes. Thus, having everything simply being a psionic power doesn't work for me. My feat is NOTHING like what they have for the Sharingan, so please stop comparing it to that. I am very aware of what they have, I have tried contributing some stuff to there, mostly jutsu like the Hachimon Tonkou, as they only have about 2 powers for it. Sure, I'm obviously plagerizing every idea they did, which is what you're pretty much saying I'm doing, by daring to work on it using the arcane swordsage varient with arcane spells as jutsu.
Bowmore 08-14-07, 06:30 PM	I'm just going to say what I'm sure everyone who is avoiding this thread would say were they to reply. Just go buy BESM D20. Seriously. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches trying to balance things out, and it provides you a great framework for crazy anime crap. You can mimic or recreate just about any anime you can name with BESM D20.
Fuzzly 08-14-07, 09:53 PM	As much as I hate to admit to being a Narutard, the Sharingan does allow the user to learn the technique. They (apparently) see the chakra and the handsigns. They are able to do the technique as it's being done by copying the moves at almost the same time. They don't magically forget how to do it. This is why Oro wanted the Sharingan, it makes learning techniques a trifle.
Mindolin 08-15-07, 08:55 AM	Okay, it does seem to be that they can learn it, but from what I've seen it might be more of a trait of the Two Tomoe Sharingan. I admit I was wrong about that, maybe, when I get around to making the two tomoe eye have it grant a spontaneous caster the ability to copy a technique used against the user, allowing them to learn it in one of their open slots, provided they can identify it. The thing is, though, that I am going on this in stages, and this looks like a good place to start, with the least powerful. The feat I posted earlier is the basic beginning Sharingan, and is not in any way meant to convey all powers of the Sharingan eye, the next step will probably increase the bonus to spot and spellcraft, as well as granting a few spells to the spells known, namely Dispel Magic and Suggestion. Bowmore, please, the reason I posted here is twofold. One, I prefer D&D to all the other game systems I have tried, and two because I have no BESM books.
Bowmore 08-15-07, 11:39 AM	BESM d20 is D&D. It has that shiny little d20 next to the name. BESM d20 was designed exactly so people like you wouldn't have to muck around in a futile attempt to balance out the crazy things that happen in anime. As for the psionic Naruto builds, they accomplish it perfectly -- and all it would take to get the 'flavour' of the anime right is some renaming here and there. Power points become chakra points, powers become jutsus, rename the classes, rename the powers, and you've got yourself what is basically a pre-balanced Naruto RPG. BESM d20 was designed so people can play out their anime fantasies with a game designed for it. It seems to me some anime fans just want to play a shinigami or a keyblade user or a konoha shinobi in a party with a half-orc barbarian, a gnome illusionist, an elf wizard, and a human cleric. It really is the perfect tool for the job, and it boggles my mind why so many anime fans dismiss it.
Tectorman 08-15-07, 12:12 PM	As for the psionic Naruto builds, they accomplish it perfectly -- and all it would take to get the 'flavour' of the anime right is some renaming here and there. Power points become chakra points, powers become jutsus, rename the classes, rename the powers, and you've got yourself what is basically a pre-balanced Naruto RPG. BESM d20 was designed so people can play out their anime fantasies with a game designed for it. It seems to me some anime fans just want to play a shinigami or a keyblade user or a konoha shinobi in a party with a half-orc barbarian, a gnome illusionist, an elf wizard, and a human cleric. It really is the perfect tool for the job, and it boggles my mind why so many anime fans dismiss it. I tend to agree, especially with the advent of the Psychic Rogue. That, plus the Wilder and the PsyWar give you three different styles of Power (Jutsu) using Ninja. One for the combative types, one for the stealthy skillful types, and one for the people that don't learn a lot of techniques, but the few that they do are more powerful than anyone else's. The reason why so many anime fans dismiss BESM d20 is because they've probably never heard of it (I didn't know about it until I read this post). Either it didn't sell itself well, or it had bad PR, but BESM isn't well known (I don't even know what it stands for).
Bowmore 08-15-07, 12:47 PM	The reason why so many anime fans dismiss BESM d20 is because they've probably never heard of it (I didn't know about it until I read this post). Either it didn't sell itself well, or it had bad PR, but BESM isn't well known (I don't even know what it stands for). I totally forgot to take into account the obscurity of BESM d20 and now I feel like a dork. Anyway, what's also nice about BESM d20 is that you can do so much with just the one single core book. Let that sink in for a moment. You will only need one book to recreate the style of just about any anime or manga you want with just the single main BESM d20 book.
Mindolin 08-15-07, 04:45 PM	That's the thing though, I need that pretty obscure book to play it. I've spent hours in Books-A-Million today, never saw it, and have spent much time in the local game stores, and have never seen a copy of it. By the way, it stands for Big Eyes Small Mouth, since that guy asked. Also, the only time I saw one for sale anywhere, except online where I don't like to buy things, it was not the D20 BESM.
Fuzzly 08-15-07, 08:00 PM	Alright, time to show that I'm a total geek again. If we go by what we have seen Sasuke do at the beginning of the series (did he start with 1 tomoe? I honestly don't remember, as I dislike his character and don't pay attention to details.) he has excellent spot modifiers. Above most of the rookies, but not above jounins. So, a spot modifier is needed.(I know you have this, I'm just breaking it down.) He also seems to be able to read people's movements, whether hand-to-hand combat or hand signs. This has given him an advantage, except when his opponent is exceptionally faster than him (Rock Lee! My favorite character) So, this could be add up to three bonuses that I see. Initiative, Dodge AC, and spellcraft. I'm not sure if the single tomoe allows him to see genjutsu that much better than anyone else, as Sakura seemed to be on the same level or higher when recognizing genjutsu, but I could be wrong in that aspect. But, honestly, the book that people have been describing seems to be well worth looking for and much better than anything I could give you.
Aleolus 08-15-07, 08:39 PM	One quick thing, I would make it so you can take the feat up to three times, improving it each time. For instance, improving the bonuses every time you take it, and adding more benfits. For instance, I would make it so that any character who can cast spells spontainiously can make a spot check whenever any opponent casts a spell, DC equal to 10 plus the level of the spell. If the check succeeds, then that spell is permanently added to their spells known, regardless of whether that spell is arcane or divine in origin, though they take a -5 on spot checks for spells of the type that they do not cast (arcane spells for divine spellcasters, or divine spells for an arcane spellcaster).
StruckingFuggle 08-15-07, 09:16 PM	The psionic Naruto builds do exactly that. You're inventing a whole system to copy what someone else has already done. Reinventing the wheel. Because some of us would prefer, sometimes, to play with custom content we made, instead of using someone else's work.
Mindolin 08-16-07, 08:35 AM	One quick thing, I would make it so you can take the feat up to three times, improving it each time. For instance, improving the bonuses every time you take it, and adding more benfits. For instance, I would make it so that any character who can cast spells spontainiously can make a spot check whenever any opponent casts a spell, DC equal to 10 plus the level of the spell. If the check succeeds, then that spell is permanently added to their spells known, regardless of whether that spell is arcane or divine in origin, though they take a -5 on spot checks for spells of the type that they do not cast (arcane spells for divine spellcasters, or divine spells for an arcane spellcaster). It is going to be several different feats, I just haven't made the others yet. The permanently learning new spells is a bit overpowered. Fuzzly, I think you're right and I might change the benefits to include a bonus on Sense Motive, which would help with some of the predicting the opponent. Actually, Fuzzly, he begins with a single tomoe in one eye and two in the other. Okay, I have posted the Two Tomoe Sharingan in the original post. Does it seem balanced or not, and I'm not too sure about the prereqs, anyway, so if anyone can give me an idea for how to further balance it, let me know.
Meikle_641 08-16-07, 06:54 PM	I'd recommend doign something similar to what my friend did for his Naruto system. Mainly, instead of instantly learning a spell, you can get a bonus to say, Spellcraft which'd let you learn it as you would a spell or something (different system mechanics...). Have the bonus go away after 12 hours or something. Bam. You got yourself the deus ex machingan-, er Sharingan. :P (Sasuke should've died in the Haku fight, I maintain. Bloody Kishimoto catering to fanpeople and his thing for the emo loser. Go Naruto and Rock Lee!)
Bowmore 08-16-07, 07:38 PM	(Sasuke should've died in the Haku fight, I maintain. Bloody Kishimoto catering to fanpeople and his thing for the emo loser. Go Naruto and Rock Lee!) I agree wholeheartedly. Sasuke surviving that fight is what led me to stop reading / watching Naruto. The series would have been better off without him and his idiot fans.
Fuzzly 08-17-07, 07:59 AM	I've always disliked Sasuke. I loved the Lee/Neji+Sasuke rivalry because of the hardwork VS genius aspect. Unfortunately, Kish has such a ****ing hard on for Sasuke that he's completely blown that aspect, and has make the Sharingan such a powerful tool/ability, that it's really ridiculous. <spoiler alert to non-manga readers> Sasuke should have died in the last fight as well. The sharingan should not have been able to see the mines, or the c4 blast. Also- deactivating bombs with lightning was dumb, as was the "space jutsu" he used to "get inside Manda" I want more Rock Lee, damnit. At this point, you could give the Sharingan almost any ability you could think of and work it in. I know Kishi has.
Bowmore 08-17-07, 08:05 AM	Plot Armour no Jutsu! And with that, I'm done. This isn't a thread discussing anime, it's a thread about adapting an anime thingy into D&D. Bye!
Mindolin 08-17-07, 08:47 AM	Really, I must agree with the fact that Sasuke should have died, but I am glad he didn't, or we wouldn't have seen him get his rear handed to him by Rock Lee, and it was fun to watch Naruto surpass him. I haven't read that last bit, but have heard about it, and think it's not really that hard to do. The "space jutsu" you mentioned, could have just been a varient on the Substitution Jutsu, and teleported him inside Manda's mouth. I think the main reason the Sharingan worked was because the bombs were powered by chakra, and seeing chakra is the main ability of the sharingan. But yeah, Rock Lee is one of the best characters in there, which is why I'm currently trying to make him as a D&D character. Only reason I started with the Sharingan is that there is a lot more info on what it can do, as one of the main characters has it.
Mindolin 08-23-07, 08:42 AM	Anyone else have any ideas on how to do this?
NobodyRemembersThis 08-23-07, 08:31 PM	The only way to balance it meachnically is allow it to replicate low level abilities and allow the character to know the ability completely for 2-8 days. Because it is not an ingrained and active ability (read: feat or spell), I'd say the cahracter would have to start making Knowledge [Jutsu] skill checks in order to activate the ability. I say 20+technique rank(level) for the check so it is not automatic. If they are spell style abilities, maybe grant him +1 technique as he levels. It should also always be an opposed roll (spot versus bluff) to mimic an ability. Always. It would represent how it is not a guaranteed ability, especially if a character is deliberately trying to mislead the sharingan. So maybe this: SHARINGAN You have the ability to mimic and rapidly learn other techniques Requirements - must be taken at character creation, Wisdom 15+ Benefits - You can attempt to mimic a technique that is being used against you. You must declare your intent to ready this ability before your target attacks (see readying an action). You make a spot check opposed by your targets bluff check. If successful, you mimic his attack. The attack's strength is based of the targets character (jutsu, etc.) level, not your own. Using this technique is a full round action Special - [if treated as spells]You gain +1 technique at each ninja level that must have been a technique you have replicated. Recall Technique You have learned to use the Sharingan offensively to recal techniques you have copied. Requirements - Sharingan, Wisdom 15+, Spot 8 ranks, Knowledge [Jutsu] 8 ranks Benefits - You may make a Knowledge [Jutsu] check to recall a technique. The DC is 20 + the level of the Jutsu. Recalling a technique is a swift action. Performing the technique requires a full round action or the techniques required action, whichever is longer. You may only recall a Jutsu you are powerful enough to use (ie, ninja level/feat requirements). The technique recalled and used uses a technique slot of the appropriate level for the encounter. Special - recalling more than 1 technique in an encounter is difficult. Each technique after the first that is recalled adds +2 to the recall DC. Fast Recall You can perform copied techniques faster. Requirements Sharingan, Wisdom 15+Recall Technique, Spot 10 ranks, Knowledge [Jutsu] 10 ranks. Benefit - Techniques recalled with Recall Technique are performed as a standard action or the techniques action, whichever is longer. ------------------ How's them apples?
Mindolin 08-30-07, 10:48 AM	Anyone else?
Daeva 08-30-07, 04:42 PM	ive actually played a smallish cmapaign using that naruto D20, it was actually pretty neat, just sucks i cant get my players to give a crap about anything unofficial
Mindolin 09-11-07, 11:50 AM	Any more opinions on what I have created?