Shield Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shield Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zaistars69
03-01-07, 04:08 PM I'm working on rules to increase the usefullness of sword and board combat. I am thinking of instituting a maneuver system probably feat based. The name is still subject but mechanic wise I'd like to get some constructive criticism.

Shield Combat:
Parry

Prerequisite: Proficiency with light, heavy and/or Tower Shields, BAB +2, Int 13

Benefit: You can make an opposed roll against an opponent who otherwise would have hit you with a melee or ranged attack. This opposed roll uses your base attack + shield enhancement bonus + your Str modifier + any Weapon Focus feats for shields. This is considered an instant action. You can use this ability once per encounter, and +1 time per encounter every 5 pnts of BAB. A tie goes to the defender. If this Feat succeeds damage (if any) is taken by the shield. This effect can eventually destroy the shield. You cannot use this Feat if you are flat footed.
If you have the shield ward feat you can expend one of the uses of this maneuver as a swift action to add a circumstance bonus to your reflex saves equal to the AC bonus of your shield (rounded up).
benstundze
03-01-07, 04:38 PM Feats:
Shield Parry

Prerequisite: Int 14, Dex 14, BAB 2, 4 lvls in Fighter

Benefit: You can make an opposed roll against an opponent who otherwise would have hit you with a melee or ranged attack. This opposed roll uses your base attack + shield enhancement bonus + your Dex modifier + any Weapon Focus feats for shields. This is considered an instant action. You can use this ability once per encounter, and +1 time per encounter every 3 lvls after you tack this feat. A tie go’s to the defender. If this Feat succeeds no damage is taken. You cannot use this Feat if you are flat footed. If the opponent has evasion this ability is useless.

Improved shield Parry

Prerequisite: Int 15, Dex 15, BAB 5, Parry

Benefit: you gain a +1 to any parry block made. You can also parry spells that require touch attacks (the rolls agents the opponents spell DC), your roll is divided by two at the end though. You can add 1/3rd your reflex bace save, to the AC bonus of your shield.

Grand shield Parry

Prerequisite: Int 15, Dex 15, BAB 5, Improved shield Parry

Benefit: you gain a +2 to any parry block made. You can add 2/3rds your reflex bace save, to the AC bonus of your shield.

Epic shield Parry

Prerequisite: Int 15, Dex 15, BAB 5, Grand shield Parry

Benefit: you gain a +3 to any parry block made. You can also parry spells that require touch attacks (the rolls agents the opponents spell DC), without a negative. You can add all of your reflex bace save, to the AC bonus of your shield.

how is this?
ben
TheCobra
03-01-07, 04:40 PM I think Shield Ward from the PHB II has already made shields a lot better. A fat touch AC boost is always nice.
benstundze
03-01-07, 05:16 PM i didnt know it was a feat.....
Zaistars69
03-01-07, 05:45 PM I wasn't looking for a rework of the ability, also it is suppose to be based on BAB not character level. The idea is, the more combat based you are the better at this you are and 1/3 levels is way too much for one encounter. Shield ward is indeed a feat from the PHB 2 that increases your abilities with a shield. I've edited my above post to reflect my changes.
benstundze
03-02-07, 12:04 AM i think you should make it so the shield doesn’t get destroyed personally, and if you don’t, make the magic shield indestructible at lease.
glad i can help
ben
kenicolo
03-02-07, 12:16 AM How about a guy who fights with shields (spiked at least) Anyone like the idea of a double shield fighter?? You only have to rule that a character gain cumulative AC for a secondary shield. Big Ac low damege output, good balance

Improve shield bash/Shield Specialisation/Agile shiled fighter
Shieldmate
Two Wpn FightingTwo Wpn Defense
improved shieldmate / Wpn focus shield
Improver two wpn defense
Wpn specialisation shield
Greater wpn focus shield / Greater wpn specialisation
Combat expertise
Improve combat expertise
Zaistars69
03-02-07, 11:36 AM i think you should make it so the shield doesn’t get destroyed personally, and if you don’t, make the magic shield indestructible at lease.
glad i can help
ben

What magic shield? No the shield should eventually get destroyed if you use it to repeatedly block a WF titans hammer attack, etc. Besides, it gives a caster reason to memorize mending or the fighter type to maintain his equipment.
Remember this is a special maneuver above and beyond regular defending. You are pitting your shield directly against the incoming attack.
Zaistars69
03-02-07, 11:38 AM How about a guy who fights with shields (spiked at least) Anyone like the idea of a double shield fighter?? You only have to rule that a character gain cumulative AC for a secondary shield. Big Ac low damege output, good balance

Improve shield bash/Shield Specialisation/Agile shiled fighter
Shieldmate
Two Wpn FightingTwo Wpn Defense
improved shieldmate / Wpn focus shield
Improver two wpn defense
Wpn specialisation shield
Greater wpn focus shield / Greater wpn specialisation
Combat expertise
Improve combat expertise

Uhh, no. this idea is beyond silly. With the exception of the buckler and maybe the light shield (big maybe), shields are way to unweildy to use in this way.
benstundze
03-02-07, 01:06 PM light wouldn’t and all you’d need is like:
two weapon fighting,
make a feat for it to say you can duel weld shields,

and then for heavy shields its exotic weapon proficiency
and maybe 2 more custom feats to do it.
ben
Zaistars69
03-02-07, 03:26 PM benstundze, thanks for he ideas with making it a feat. Two shields isn't quite what I was looking for with this thread. Let's stop discussing it. If anyone else has anything useful for the purpose I'd appreciate it.
benstundze
03-02-07, 03:37 PM ok
Bhaal006
03-03-07, 05:55 PM These are some of the feats ive made for use with my fighter altough i haven't had a chance to play test them yet i think they're pretty cool/balanced

Centurian: [Tactical]
Prerequisites:Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Figting,
Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit:Shield Bearer enable the use of three tactical Maneuvers
Redoubt:to make use of this Maneuver you must be using a shield in your off-hand, you may make an opposed attack roll with your shield against the attack made by you target, if the attack succeeds your opponent misses, apply half the amount of damage the attack would normally deal to the shield. this is an immediate action and counts against the number of attacks that can be made with your off-hand and the penalty for wielding two weapons also apply to this roll.
Cover-up:to make use of this maneuver you must be useing a shield in your off-hand, you may apply your shields AC bonus to you reflex saves.
Quick-step:To make use of this maneuver you must be using a shield in your off-hand, If you succeed on an opposed attack roll against attacks made by an opponent with reach (including attacks of oppertunity) through the use of Redoubt, you may immediately move into a square adjacent to the wielder and make a free attack at your highest base attack bonus, this is an immediate action.

Elite Centurian: [Tactical][Elite]
Prerequisites: Centurian, Combat Reflexes, ITWF, BAB +12
Benefits: Elite Centurian enable the use of three tactical maneuvers
Deflect: To make use of this maneuver you must be using a shield in your off-hane, whenever an opponent misses due to your Redoubt, they provoke an attack of oppertunity, this is an immediate action and counts against the normal attacks of oppertunity you are allowed, however you may attack the same opponent as long as you keep deflecting his attacks.Your shield doesn't take any damage when you use this maneuver.
Hidden Threat: To make use of this Maneuver you must be using a shield in your off-hand, if you strike an opponent with your shield twice in the same round he is considered flat footed.
Follow-Up: To make use of this maneuver you must be wielding a shield in your off-hand, if you hit your opponent at least three times in the same round you get an additonal attack on the following round at your highest base attack Bonus

Rushing Wall: [Style]
Prerequisites: Shield Slam, and Improved Bull Rush
Benefit: If you hit with your shield as part of a charge you may make an immediate Bullrush attempt, if you succeed you may make an additional attack with the weapon in your main hand at your highest base attack bonus.
Willie the Duck
03-03-07, 06:36 PM Well, I think it needs to be an emmediate action, since you're doing it on someone else's turn.

Other than that, additional feats that allow you to do this to resist special attacks like grapple or disarm, or to defend someone next to you would makes sense. I think there was a PrC in Sword&Fist (devoted defender maybe) that could do this kind of thing with a weapon or shield (parrying attacks) aimed at their charge.

Your making a check of a figured number versus their attack roll. Should you take penalties on your roll if you would take penalties to an attack (say if you are prone)? An enemy gets a bonus to attack you if they charge, but I expect they have less control than a normal attack. How to address that?
Bhaal006
03-03-07, 07:12 PM EDIT: Nevermind i get it.
shadowsofwhite
03-03-07, 11:58 PM I would like to refer you all to Shields efficiency (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=800488)
Zaistars69
03-05-07, 11:33 AM I would like to refer you all to Shields efficiency (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=800488)

I've seen this link. all that's there are a bunch of arguments on what's better. Or on the reality of it. That's not what I'm looking for here. I realize there is no way to make it perfectly real. I'm just trying to balance sword and board.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zaistars69 03-01-07, 04:08 PM	I'm working on rules to increase the usefullness of sword and board combat. I am thinking of instituting a maneuver system probably feat based. The name is still subject but mechanic wise I'd like to get some constructive criticism. Shield Combat: Parry Prerequisite: Proficiency with light, heavy and/or Tower Shields, BAB +2, Int 13 Benefit: You can make an opposed roll against an opponent who otherwise would have hit you with a melee or ranged attack. This opposed roll uses your base attack + shield enhancement bonus + your Str modifier + any Weapon Focus feats for shields. This is considered an instant action. You can use this ability once per encounter, and +1 time per encounter every 5 pnts of BAB. A tie goes to the defender. If this Feat succeeds damage (if any) is taken by the shield. This effect can eventually destroy the shield. You cannot use this Feat if you are flat footed. If you have the shield ward feat you can expend one of the uses of this maneuver as a swift action to add a circumstance bonus to your reflex saves equal to the AC bonus of your shield (rounded up).
benstundze 03-01-07, 04:38 PM	Feats: Shield Parry Prerequisite: Int 14, Dex 14, BAB 2, 4 lvls in Fighter Benefit: You can make an opposed roll against an opponent who otherwise would have hit you with a melee or ranged attack. This opposed roll uses your base attack + shield enhancement bonus + your Dex modifier + any Weapon Focus feats for shields. This is considered an instant action. You can use this ability once per encounter, and +1 time per encounter every 3 lvls after you tack this feat. A tie go’s to the defender. If this Feat succeeds no damage is taken. You cannot use this Feat if you are flat footed. If the opponent has evasion this ability is useless. Improved shield Parry Prerequisite: Int 15, Dex 15, BAB 5, Parry Benefit: you gain a +1 to any parry block made. You can also parry spells that require touch attacks (the rolls agents the opponents spell DC), your roll is divided by two at the end though. You can add 1/3rd your reflex bace save, to the AC bonus of your shield. Grand shield Parry Prerequisite: Int 15, Dex 15, BAB 5, Improved shield Parry Benefit: you gain a +2 to any parry block made. You can add 2/3rds your reflex bace save, to the AC bonus of your shield. Epic shield Parry Prerequisite: Int 15, Dex 15, BAB 5, Grand shield Parry Benefit: you gain a +3 to any parry block made. You can also parry spells that require touch attacks (the rolls agents the opponents spell DC), without a negative. You can add all of your reflex bace save, to the AC bonus of your shield. how is this? ben
TheCobra 03-01-07, 04:40 PM	I think Shield Ward from the PHB II has already made shields a lot better. A fat touch AC boost is always nice.
benstundze 03-01-07, 05:16 PM	i didnt know it was a feat.....
Zaistars69 03-01-07, 05:45 PM	I wasn't looking for a rework of the ability, also it is suppose to be based on BAB not character level. The idea is, the more combat based you are the better at this you are and 1/3 levels is way too much for one encounter. Shield ward is indeed a feat from the PHB 2 that increases your abilities with a shield. I've edited my above post to reflect my changes.
benstundze 03-02-07, 12:04 AM	i think you should make it so the shield doesn’t get destroyed personally, and if you don’t, make the magic shield indestructible at lease. glad i can help ben
kenicolo 03-02-07, 12:16 AM	How about a guy who fights with shields (spiked at least) Anyone like the idea of a double shield fighter?? You only have to rule that a character gain cumulative AC for a secondary shield. Big Ac low damege output, good balance Improve shield bash/Shield Specialisation/Agile shiled fighter Shieldmate Two Wpn FightingTwo Wpn Defense improved shieldmate / Wpn focus shield Improver two wpn defense Wpn specialisation shield Greater wpn focus shield / Greater wpn specialisation Combat expertise Improve combat expertise
Zaistars69 03-02-07, 11:36 AM	i think you should make it so the shield doesn’t get destroyed personally, and if you don’t, make the magic shield indestructible at lease. glad i can help ben What magic shield? No the shield should eventually get destroyed if you use it to repeatedly block a WF titans hammer attack, etc. Besides, it gives a caster reason to memorize mending or the fighter type to maintain his equipment. Remember this is a special maneuver above and beyond regular defending. You are pitting your shield directly against the incoming attack.
Zaistars69 03-02-07, 11:38 AM	How about a guy who fights with shields (spiked at least) Anyone like the idea of a double shield fighter?? You only have to rule that a character gain cumulative AC for a secondary shield. Big Ac low damege output, good balance Improve shield bash/Shield Specialisation/Agile shiled fighter Shieldmate Two Wpn FightingTwo Wpn Defense improved shieldmate / Wpn focus shield Improver two wpn defense Wpn specialisation shield Greater wpn focus shield / Greater wpn specialisation Combat expertise Improve combat expertise Uhh, no. this idea is beyond silly. With the exception of the buckler and maybe the light shield (big maybe), shields are way to unweildy to use in this way.
benstundze 03-02-07, 01:06 PM	light wouldn’t and all you’d need is like: two weapon fighting, make a feat for it to say you can duel weld shields, and then for heavy shields its exotic weapon proficiency and maybe 2 more custom feats to do it. ben
Zaistars69 03-02-07, 03:26 PM	benstundze, thanks for he ideas with making it a feat. Two shields isn't quite what I was looking for with this thread. Let's stop discussing it. If anyone else has anything useful for the purpose I'd appreciate it.
benstundze 03-02-07, 03:37 PM	ok
Bhaal006 03-03-07, 05:55 PM	These are some of the feats ive made for use with my fighter altough i haven't had a chance to play test them yet i think they're pretty cool/balanced Centurian: [Tactical] Prerequisites:Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Figting, Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefit:Shield Bearer enable the use of three tactical Maneuvers Redoubt:to make use of this Maneuver you must be using a shield in your off-hand, you may make an opposed attack roll with your shield against the attack made by you target, if the attack succeeds your opponent misses, apply half the amount of damage the attack would normally deal to the shield. this is an immediate action and counts against the number of attacks that can be made with your off-hand and the penalty for wielding two weapons also apply to this roll. Cover-up:to make use of this maneuver you must be useing a shield in your off-hand, you may apply your shields AC bonus to you reflex saves. Quick-step:To make use of this maneuver you must be using a shield in your off-hand, If you succeed on an opposed attack roll against attacks made by an opponent with reach (including attacks of oppertunity) through the use of Redoubt, you may immediately move into a square adjacent to the wielder and make a free attack at your highest base attack bonus, this is an immediate action. Elite Centurian: [Tactical][Elite] Prerequisites: Centurian, Combat Reflexes, ITWF, BAB +12 Benefits: Elite Centurian enable the use of three tactical maneuvers Deflect: To make use of this maneuver you must be using a shield in your off-hane, whenever an opponent misses due to your Redoubt, they provoke an attack of oppertunity, this is an immediate action and counts against the normal attacks of oppertunity you are allowed, however you may attack the same opponent as long as you keep deflecting his attacks.Your shield doesn't take any damage when you use this maneuver. Hidden Threat: To make use of this Maneuver you must be using a shield in your off-hand, if you strike an opponent with your shield twice in the same round he is considered flat footed. Follow-Up: To make use of this maneuver you must be wielding a shield in your off-hand, if you hit your opponent at least three times in the same round you get an additonal attack on the following round at your highest base attack Bonus Rushing Wall: [Style] Prerequisites: Shield Slam, and Improved Bull Rush Benefit: If you hit with your shield as part of a charge you may make an immediate Bullrush attempt, if you succeed you may make an additional attack with the weapon in your main hand at your highest base attack bonus.
Willie the Duck 03-03-07, 06:36 PM	Well, I think it needs to be an emmediate action, since you're doing it on someone else's turn. Other than that, additional feats that allow you to do this to resist special attacks like grapple or disarm, or to defend someone next to you would makes sense. I think there was a PrC in Sword&Fist (devoted defender maybe) that could do this kind of thing with a weapon or shield (parrying attacks) aimed at their charge. Your making a check of a figured number versus their attack roll. Should you take penalties on your roll if you would take penalties to an attack (say if you are prone)? An enemy gets a bonus to attack you if they charge, but I expect they have less control than a normal attack. How to address that?
Bhaal006 03-03-07, 07:12 PM	EDIT: Nevermind i get it.
shadowsofwhite 03-03-07, 11:58 PM	I would like to refer you all to Shields efficiency (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=800488)
Zaistars69 03-05-07, 11:33 AM	I would like to refer you all to Shields efficiency (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=800488) I've seen this link. all that's there are a bunch of arguments on what's better. Or on the reality of it. That's not what I'm looking for here. I realize there is no way to make it perfectly real. I'm just trying to balance sword and board.