Shock Trooper from Complete Warrior [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shock Trooper from Complete Warrior [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Novacat
05-18-07, 09:53 PM Reading this feat, I'm unsure if the attack penalty can be COMPLETELY shifted to AC (with a minimum of -5), or if you must take at least -5 to hit, and then you can start putting any additional penalty on AC.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
05-18-07, 09:58 PM Reading this feat, I'm unsure if the attack penalty can be COMPLETELY shifted to AC (with a minimum of -5), or if you must take at least -5 to hit, and then you can start putting any additional penalty on AC.

It's completely.
Nezkrul
05-19-07, 01:09 AM all of your base attack can come off your AC. There is no limit to it except for your base attack. There is also nothing in the rules that states you can't have a really crappy ac (negatives).
Southernskies
05-19-07, 04:48 AM And if your GM allows this feat without removing the heedless charge ability, it will unbalance your play later on.

Give a lancer this feat + power attack + spirited charge and as long as you don't roll a 1, everything dies.

Its one of those feats that completely unbalance combat.
kalstrand
05-19-07, 03:02 PM Actually we are playing with a Leap Attack, Shock Trooper charger right now and while he can do lots of damage the fact his AC is so horrible has been getting him hurt so bad he is to the point he will no longer use Shock Trooper.

A perfect example last night he charged in and eliminated about half the force on his first action. Two more of the party attacked and killed a couple more of the enemies. What we didn't know was the 9 archer demons on the mountain behind us. All 3 of us took a full round from 3 archer demons. Each demon had 4 shots of the 6 demons shooting at my character and the Warblade only 1 hit was scored of the 24 shots. All 12 of the shots fired at the charger hit.
Particle_Man
05-19-07, 05:32 PM It is one of those feats where if you don't kill the other guy with your blow, then he can kill you if he has power attack. Whatever you reduce your AC by, the other guy can reduce their attack roll by, and thus get effectively free damage on their turn. They will likely get a full attack, too, where you quite possibly only got the one attack in.
SunTzuWarmaster
05-20-07, 10:46 AM Are you kidding? That unbalances combat? Whatever happened to a readied action to sidestep? After you sidestep, you can easily open up the damage floodgates due to the poor AC.

Easy ways to beat a charge:
Immediate magic - most of it, Stay the Hand, 50% miss chance (illusionists), abrupt jaunt (conjurers), Celerity (for a move action), ect.
Magic - Blur, Fog cloud, other things with miss chances
Readied actions - to sidestep/dodge/tumble, or to just kill the horse
hazardous terrain - especially for mounted combat
illusions - the old joke about the horse not making the will save
reach - an old standby
CORNERS - usually charges have to be in a straight line
Hold the Line - a solid feat for any fighter that gets charged

Most classes (sorry Warlock, you just get to jump out of the way) have the ability not to be charged for one reason or another. Of course, you also always have to go before the monsters in order to charge them. Most of the time, the monster will charge you.

Also, they might miss...
Lotus Crane
05-20-07, 11:15 AM And if your GM allows this feat without removing the heedless charge ability, it will unbalance your play later on.
Its one of those feats that completely unbalance combat.
Not any more than 6th-9th level spells. Can't non-spellcasters have nice things once in a while?
Particle_Man
05-20-07, 12:23 PM Most classes (sorry Warlock, you just get to jump out of the way) have the ability not to be charged for one reason or another.

What about a readied "Flee the Scene" invocation? Come to think of it, "Fell Flight" usually stops those meelee types from closing in anyhow.
tui
05-23-07, 04:02 PM I think in any situation where a character ALWAYS tries to use the same tactic, people would start to hear about it and develop counters. You can let the PCs do it for a bit, then start working in some nasty surprises.

Like a big pit full of poisoned spikes, with an illusionary bad guy standing on an illusionary floor above it. That would be a painful heedless charge.

It's tempting to repeat what works, but in reality being able to use a good mix of different tactics is pretty important to a good offense. You shouldn't make it so a tactic the player has worked hard to develop (3+ feats) is totally useless, but they should need to think about it before trying to use it.... or pay the price of not thinking.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Novacat 05-18-07, 09:53 PM	Reading this feat, I'm unsure if the attack penalty can be COMPLETELY shifted to AC (with a minimum of -5), or if you must take at least -5 to hit, and then you can start putting any additional penalty on AC.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 05-18-07, 09:58 PM	Reading this feat, I'm unsure if the attack penalty can be COMPLETELY shifted to AC (with a minimum of -5), or if you must take at least -5 to hit, and then you can start putting any additional penalty on AC. It's completely.
Nezkrul 05-19-07, 01:09 AM	all of your base attack can come off your AC. There is no limit to it except for your base attack. There is also nothing in the rules that states you can't have a really crappy ac (negatives).
Southernskies 05-19-07, 04:48 AM	And if your GM allows this feat without removing the heedless charge ability, it will unbalance your play later on. Give a lancer this feat + power attack + spirited charge and as long as you don't roll a 1, everything dies. Its one of those feats that completely unbalance combat.
kalstrand 05-19-07, 03:02 PM	Actually we are playing with a Leap Attack, Shock Trooper charger right now and while he can do lots of damage the fact his AC is so horrible has been getting him hurt so bad he is to the point he will no longer use Shock Trooper. A perfect example last night he charged in and eliminated about half the force on his first action. Two more of the party attacked and killed a couple more of the enemies. What we didn't know was the 9 archer demons on the mountain behind us. All 3 of us took a full round from 3 archer demons. Each demon had 4 shots of the 6 demons shooting at my character and the Warblade only 1 hit was scored of the 24 shots. All 12 of the shots fired at the charger hit.
Particle_Man 05-19-07, 05:32 PM	It is one of those feats where if you don't kill the other guy with your blow, then he can kill you if he has power attack. Whatever you reduce your AC by, the other guy can reduce their attack roll by, and thus get effectively free damage on their turn. They will likely get a full attack, too, where you quite possibly only got the one attack in.
SunTzuWarmaster 05-20-07, 10:46 AM	Are you kidding? That unbalances combat? Whatever happened to a readied action to sidestep? After you sidestep, you can easily open up the damage floodgates due to the poor AC. Easy ways to beat a charge: Immediate magic - most of it, Stay the Hand, 50% miss chance (illusionists), abrupt jaunt (conjurers), Celerity (for a move action), ect. Magic - Blur, Fog cloud, other things with miss chances Readied actions - to sidestep/dodge/tumble, or to just kill the horse hazardous terrain - especially for mounted combat illusions - the old joke about the horse not making the will save reach - an old standby CORNERS - usually charges have to be in a straight line Hold the Line - a solid feat for any fighter that gets charged Most classes (sorry Warlock, you just get to jump out of the way) have the ability not to be charged for one reason or another. Of course, you also always have to go before the monsters in order to charge them. Most of the time, the monster will charge you. Also, they might miss...
Lotus Crane 05-20-07, 11:15 AM	And if your GM allows this feat without removing the heedless charge ability, it will unbalance your play later on. Its one of those feats that completely unbalance combat. Not any more than 6th-9th level spells. Can't non-spellcasters have nice things once in a while?
Particle_Man 05-20-07, 12:23 PM	Most classes (sorry Warlock, you just get to jump out of the way) have the ability not to be charged for one reason or another. What about a readied "Flee the Scene" invocation? Come to think of it, "Fell Flight" usually stops those meelee types from closing in anyhow.
tui 05-23-07, 04:02 PM	I think in any situation where a character ALWAYS tries to use the same tactic, people would start to hear about it and develop counters. You can let the PCs do it for a bit, then start working in some nasty surprises. Like a big pit full of poisoned spikes, with an illusionary bad guy standing on an illusionary floor above it. That would be a painful heedless charge. It's tempting to repeat what works, but in reality being able to use a good mix of different tactics is pretty important to a good offense. You shouldn't make it so a tactic the player has worked hard to develop (3+ feats) is totally useless, but they should need to think about it before trying to use it.... or pay the price of not thinking.