shot on the run and rapid shot [Archive] - Wizards Community

shot on the run and rapid shot [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dyax
10-15-07, 05:56 PM can i use rapid shot and shot on the run in the same turn,or just one of time?

or

can i use many shot and shot on the run in the same turn,or just one at a time?
dman11235
10-15-07, 05:58 PM Since rapid shot requires a full attack, and shot on the run says that you can make a standard action attack, no. You may only fire one arrow with shot on the run.
dawnbringer
10-15-07, 05:59 PM but you get 2 standard actions :P
Dyax
10-15-07, 06:01 PM thanks.
Igfig
10-15-07, 06:02 PM but you get 2 standard actions :P
What? Since when?
Operation_Shoestring
10-15-07, 06:18 PM Can you use multi-shot with shot on the run? IIRC, you can.
dman11235
10-15-07, 06:51 PM Many shot, not multi-shot. I actually don't think you can, but I'll check. It was discussed in an earlier thread, and I believe the conclusion was no.

EDIT: Shot on the Run says "....use the attack action....", and Manyshot is it's own standard action. But I don't think it would be an unreasonable houserule.
ToastedAmphibian
10-15-07, 07:34 PM Many shot basically lets you make a full attack, with the stipulation that you have to be within 30 ft, and you get only one target.Allowing them to do that, and then move agian, is alot more powerfull, allowing them to ignore the 30 ft range restiction to an extent, and allowing them to fill a slower enemy full of arrows every round while still staying out of range. Mabey add another feat:
Poly-Shot
Prerequisites: Dex 18, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, base attack bonus +9
Benifits: You may fire mutliple arrows as an attack action, divided as you choose among as many as two target creatures. You recieve a -2 to your attack roll per arrow fired. All arrows fired use the same attack roll, and you apply precision/critical damage to only one arrow. (You must designate the recipent of yoru precision damage before you roll your attack.) You may fire a number of arrows not to exceed your (BAB/5)+1. You may only use this feat once per turn, but it need not be at your best itterative attack.
BugHunter
10-15-07, 08:55 PM Manyshot and shot on the run can be combined both are using a standard action. Rapid shot cann't be combined with shot on the run or manyshot because rapid shot is a full round action.
runestar
10-15-07, 09:08 PM Manyshot and shot on the run can be combined both are using a standard action. Rapid shot cann't be combined with shot on the run or manyshot because rapid shot is a full round action.

Wrong.

When using the attack action with a ranged weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed.

Attack in this case pertains to the attack action, not simply from attacking your foe with whatever action you deem fit.

Manyshot is a very specific standard action. You certainly cannot combine it with shot on the run, since manyshot is not an attack action (else, a fighter could use manyshot 4 times each round).
BugHunter
10-15-07, 11:24 PM Manyshot is a very specific standard action. You certainly cannot combine it with shot on the run, since manyshot is not an attack action (else, a fighter could use manyshot 4 times each round).

How could a fighter use manyshot four times in a round when they only get one standard action and a move action? It has already been answered in the FAQ that you cann't use manyshot with a full round action.
Igfig
10-15-07, 11:39 PM How could a fighter use manyshot four times in a round when they only get one standard action and a move action? It has already been answered in the FAQ that you can't use manyshot with a full round action.
Yes, but if it weren't stated specifically that you can't use manyshot with a full round action, and Manyshot were an attack action, you could then use it four times in a round (since each attack you make in a full attack is its own attack action).

Luckily, Manyshot is a standard action, so you don't have to worry.

And indeed, therefore Runestar is correct.
Salla
10-15-07, 11:44 PM Yes, but if it weren't stated specifically that you can't use manyshot with a full round action, and Manyshot were an attack action, you could then use it four times in a round (since each attack you make in a full attack is its own attack action).

Luckily, Manyshot is a standard action, so you don't have to worry.

That is correct. Shot on the Run lets you make an attack, not a standard action. If you could perform a standard action with it, you could cast a spell (most spells, at least) or manifest a power ... or drink a potion, or ... anyway, you get the idea. :)
natzero
10-15-07, 11:45 PM as far as i can tell one can use manyshot with shot on the run. As a full round action (effectively both standard and move action combined) move and use your attack (which is a standard action)

Many shot basically lets you make a full attack, with the stipulation that you have to be within 30 ft, and you get only one target.Allowing them to do that, and then move agian, is alot more powerfull, allowing them to ignore the 30 ft range restiction to an extent, and allowing them to fill a slower enemy full of arrows every round while still staying out of range.

You must remember that the penalties are there aswell. Yes you can make someone a walking target that cannot get to you. if you can do it in melee (ie. spring attack) whos to say you cant do it with a bow (ie. skirmishing)

If a scout can move 30 ft (human no magic 1st level) and then attack for more damage (move + standard) then why cant another archer move 10ft attack manyshot (standard action) then more the rest of their 30 ft.
All shot on the run lets you do is split your move into two smaller parts of the same move action.

Last point, if you could not use many shot with shot on the run no one would use it at all. Case and point you can move your full distance (move action) and then use manyshot in the same round. You save a feat, just by using your move action once. Would being able to move 10 then 20 make it worth using a feat if you couldnt even do something you could do as a less qualified archer? Get real, shot on the run is useful for really one thing i can think of, move in 15 feet to get benefit of point blank shot or sneak attack, then moving back 15 to step right back out of range of your enemy's attack. Nothing more nothing less, its just something real life archers have practiced for hundreds of years.

Thank you :)
Salla
10-16-07, 12:02 AM as far as i can tell one can use manyshot with shot on the run. As a full round action (effectively both standard and move action combined) move and use your attack (which is a standard action)

You must remember that the penalties are there aswell. Yes you can make someone a walking target that cannot get to you. if you can do it in melee (ie. spring attack) whos to say you cant do it with a bow (ie. skirmishing)

If a scout can move 30 ft (human no magic 1st level) and then attack for more damage (move + standard) then why cant another archer move 10ft attack manyshot (standard action) then more the rest of their 30 ft.
All shot on the run lets you do is split your move into two smaller parts of the same move action.

Last point, if you could not use many shot with shot on the run no one would use it at all. Case and point you can move your full distance (move action) and then use manyshot in the same round. You save a feat, just by using your move action once. Would being able to move 10 then 20 make it worth using a feat if you couldnt even do something you could do as a less qualified archer? Get real, shot on the run is useful for really one thing i can think of, move in 15 feet to get benefit of point blank shot or sneak attack, then moving back 15 to step right back out of range of your enemy's attack. Nothing more nothing less, its just something real life archers have practiced for hundreds of years.

Thank you :)

Afraid not.

Shot on the Run: "When using the attack action with a ranged weapon ..."

Manyshot: "As a standard action. You may fire two arrows ..."

Attack Action and Standard Action are two different things. Manyshot and Shot on the Run cannot be combined.
BugHunter
10-16-07, 12:36 AM Attack Action and Standard Action are two different things. Manyshot and Shot on the Run cannot be combined.

Funny looking at the PHB table 8-2 I donn't see a section labeled as "Attack Action" I see one label "Standard Action" with attack (ranged) as a type of standard action.
dman11235
10-16-07, 02:51 AM Not this again. This was settled in another thread. The attack action is a special standard action, and so is manyshot. You cannot use the two together.
Dead_Weasel
10-16-07, 03:06 AM Funny looking at the PHB table 8-2 I donn't see a section labeled as "Attack Action" I see one label "Standard Action" with attack (ranged) as a type of standard action.Exactly. Making an attack is a type of standard action, and using Manyshot is another type of standard action. Shot On The Run lets you move before and after you "[use] the attack action with a ranged weapon," Manyshot lets you "fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet."

Hence, by RAW, you cannot benefit from both feats at the same time. I agree that it would be a reasonable houserule, but that is precisely what it would be: a house rule.
runestar
10-16-07, 04:04 AM Simply put - you can use a standard action to make an attack action, but you cannot use an attack action to perform a standard action. That is the distinction made in this scenario.

If a scout can move 30 ft (human no magic 1st level) and then attack for more damage (move + standard) then why cant another archer move 10ft attack manyshot (standard action) then more the rest of their 30 ft.

You have just made an argument about why you feel that manyshot should be allowed to combine with shot on the run. However, this is not how they do work under the current interpretation. Houserule it in your games if you must. It doesn't change anything.:)

Last point, if you could not use many shot with shot on the run no one would use it at all.

And no one ever does. What is your point?;)
Frugal
10-16-07, 09:43 AM Funny looking at the PHB table 8-2 I donn't see a section labeled as "Attack Action" I see one label "Standard Action" with attack (ranged) as a type of standard action.

By that argument, if something says "when you perform a trip action" it doesn't work because there's no section labelled "Trip action", therefore trips don't exist.

Attack is a specific standard action, shot on the run only allows that specific action because it explicitly specifies that single action, not the entire category of actions that it happens to be part of. Compare shot on the run with flyby attack, flyby attack explicitly states you can perform a standard action during the move, so manyshot would work with that, but shot on the run is limited to a single ranged attack.
Salla
10-16-07, 02:16 PM And no one ever does. What is your point?;)

The only way Shot on the Run really becomes worth it, as far as I can determine, is if your DM is a stickler for cover rules. This lets you duck out from behind cover, take a shot, and move back behind cover. This also assumes your DM likes battlefields with lots of terrain features.
Igfig
10-16-07, 04:43 PM Yes, I find it's much more powerful in D20 Modern and SWRPG, where cover is a more integral part of combat. And in Saga Edition, they made it even more desirable, since Shot On The Run, Spring Attack, and Flyby Attack were combined into one feat whose only prerequisite is Dex 13.

Incidentally, you actually can use the Multishot equivalent in those games with Shot On The Run. I'm definitely considering house-ruling the two to work together, maybe at the expense of a feat.
RysanMarquise
10-16-07, 06:21 PM It seems entirely within the spirit of the ability for multi shot and shot on the run to work together.

The ability is neither broken nor easy to get. Most DMs will be fine with this because they focus mostly upon how the rules seem intended to be played. Playing the game with painfully verbatum arguements where we get into an attack vs an attack action versus a standard action used to attack just opens up more exploits than it fixes.
runestar
10-16-07, 08:54 PM Most DMs will be fine with this because they focus mostly upon how the rules seem intended to be played.

Not my problem. If you as a DM is fine with this, then feel free to houserule however you see fit in your games.:)

The OP asked a question, we answered him. It is that simple and straightforward.

It seems entirely within the spirit of the ability for multi shot and shot on the run to work together.

Perhaps, who are we to know what the spirit of the rules entail? For all we know, maybe the designer really did not want them to stack.
Archangel_Tyrael
10-16-07, 09:05 PM The only way Shot on the Run really becomes worth it, as far as I can determine, is if your DM is a stickler for cover rules. This lets you duck out from behind cover, take a shot, and move back behind cover. This also assumes your DM likes battlefields with lots of terrain features.

Even then, it's only gonna work once. Next time you pop out, you're gonna get hit with all the enemy's held-action Manyshots (or worse, a held-action breath weapon). :D

But anyway... Manyshot and Shot on the Run don't work together. I remember the original thread... /shudder.
Operation_Shoestring
10-17-07, 01:31 AM The only way Shot on the Run really becomes worth it, as far as I can determine, is if your DM is a stickler for cover rules. This lets you duck out from behind cover, take a shot, and move back behind cover. This also assumes your DM likes battlefields with lots of terrain features.

Actually it;s very fun to use if you're the DM. Dark room full of pillars populated by evil Kulkek(?) sneaks with the shot on the run feat and hand crossbows.

Very frustrating for players to advance through. Especially since you can always rule that payers must make spot/listen checks for strafe attacks or be flat footed to increase the pain.
Midrealm_DM
10-17-07, 12:44 PM can i use rapid shot and shot on the run in the same turn,or just one of time?
.
or
.
can i use many shot and shot on the run in the same turn,or just one at a time?

From Wizards of the Coast help pages
"The short answer is no, these feats cannot be utilized simultaneously, since Manyshot requires a standard action, Rapid Shot requires a full attack action, and Shot on the Run requires an attack action. For a more detailed answer, see page 15 of the 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons FAQ."

A minor correction, the answer is somewhat outdated as the question is on p 37 of the Faq.

- It is true that no category of actions is called “attack actions” in the D&D game, but there is an action called attack—it’s the first action described under Standard Actions on page 139 in the Player’s Handbook.
- It might seem that the folks who say no Manyshot with Shot On the Run are slicing the baloney a little thin, but the letter of the rules is on their side, and so is the intent behind the letter of the rules. The Manyshot feat description could say you fire multiple arrows with the attack action, but it doesn’t. Manyshot is a standard action, not a variant on the attack action (see the feat description on page 97 in the Player’s Handbook).
- Likewise, the Shot on the Run feat could allow you to make any kind of ranged attack while moving, but it doesn’t. When using Shot on the Run, you must use the attack action with a ranged weapon (see the feat description on page 100 in the Player’s Handbook). This rules out using spells, most magic items, or special standard actions such as the Manyshot feat when making a Shot on the Run. That’s because casting a spell would require the cast a spell action (described on page 140 of the Player’s Handbook), using any magic item except for some use-activated items would require the activate magic item action (Player’s Handbook, page 142), and, as already noted here, using the Manyshot feat is a standard action.
Most magic weapons are use activated and don’t require any action to activate at all (see page 213 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide), so you can use these weapons along with the attack action. For example, you could use a +1 longbow or +1 arrow (or both) with the attack action, and thus you also could use these items with Shot on the Run.
Operation_Shoestring
10-17-07, 03:58 PM But you can use manyshot with skirmish right? So long as you use your move action to move 10', before or after your standard action for manyshot.
dman11235
10-17-07, 04:52 PM yes. but manyshot won't let you get precicion based damage on every arrow, just one. Greater many shot (SRD or expanded psionics handbook) will lett you do that.
BugHunter
10-17-07, 08:38 PM But you can use manyshot with skirmish right? So long as you use your move action to move 10', before or after your standard action for manyshot.

Skirmish damage only applies after moving at least 10'. So you would need to move and then use manyshot.

Here is the text from the Complete Adventurer errata.

"She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she
makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn. The extra damage applies only to attacks made after the scout has moved at least 10 feet."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dyax 10-15-07, 05:56 PM	can i use rapid shot and shot on the run in the same turn,or just one of time? or can i use many shot and shot on the run in the same turn,or just one at a time?
dman11235 10-15-07, 05:58 PM	Since rapid shot requires a full attack, and shot on the run says that you can make a standard action attack, no. You may only fire one arrow with shot on the run.
dawnbringer 10-15-07, 05:59 PM	but you get 2 standard actions :P
Dyax 10-15-07, 06:01 PM	thanks.
Igfig 10-15-07, 06:02 PM	but you get 2 standard actions :P What? Since when?
Operation_Shoestring 10-15-07, 06:18 PM	Can you use multi-shot with shot on the run? IIRC, you can.
dman11235 10-15-07, 06:51 PM	Many shot, not multi-shot. I actually don't think you can, but I'll check. It was discussed in an earlier thread, and I believe the conclusion was no. EDIT: Shot on the Run says "....use the attack action....", and Manyshot is it's own standard action. But I don't think it would be an unreasonable houserule.
ToastedAmphibian 10-15-07, 07:34 PM	Many shot basically lets you make a full attack, with the stipulation that you have to be within 30 ft, and you get only one target.Allowing them to do that, and then move agian, is alot more powerfull, allowing them to ignore the 30 ft range restiction to an extent, and allowing them to fill a slower enemy full of arrows every round while still staying out of range. Mabey add another feat: Poly-Shot Prerequisites: Dex 18, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, base attack bonus +9 Benifits: You may fire mutliple arrows as an attack action, divided as you choose among as many as two target creatures. You recieve a -2 to your attack roll per arrow fired. All arrows fired use the same attack roll, and you apply precision/critical damage to only one arrow. (You must designate the recipent of yoru precision damage before you roll your attack.) You may fire a number of arrows not to exceed your (BAB/5)+1. You may only use this feat once per turn, but it need not be at your best itterative attack.
BugHunter 10-15-07, 08:55 PM	Manyshot and shot on the run can be combined both are using a standard action. Rapid shot cann't be combined with shot on the run or manyshot because rapid shot is a full round action.
runestar 10-15-07, 09:08 PM	Manyshot and shot on the run can be combined both are using a standard action. Rapid shot cann't be combined with shot on the run or manyshot because rapid shot is a full round action. Wrong. When using the attack action with a ranged weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Attack in this case pertains to the attack action, not simply from attacking your foe with whatever action you deem fit. Manyshot is a very specific standard action. You certainly cannot combine it with shot on the run, since manyshot is not an attack action (else, a fighter could use manyshot 4 times each round).
BugHunter 10-15-07, 11:24 PM	Manyshot is a very specific standard action. You certainly cannot combine it with shot on the run, since manyshot is not an attack action (else, a fighter could use manyshot 4 times each round). How could a fighter use manyshot four times in a round when they only get one standard action and a move action? It has already been answered in the FAQ that you cann't use manyshot with a full round action.
Igfig 10-15-07, 11:39 PM	How could a fighter use manyshot four times in a round when they only get one standard action and a move action? It has already been answered in the FAQ that you can't use manyshot with a full round action. Yes, but if it weren't stated specifically that you can't use manyshot with a full round action, and Manyshot were an attack action, you could then use it four times in a round (since each attack you make in a full attack is its own attack action). Luckily, Manyshot is a standard action, so you don't have to worry. And indeed, therefore Runestar is correct.
Salla 10-15-07, 11:44 PM	Yes, but if it weren't stated specifically that you can't use manyshot with a full round action, and Manyshot were an attack action, you could then use it four times in a round (since each attack you make in a full attack is its own attack action). Luckily, Manyshot is a standard action, so you don't have to worry. That is correct. Shot on the Run lets you make an attack, not a standard action. If you could perform a standard action with it, you could cast a spell (most spells, at least) or manifest a power ... or drink a potion, or ... anyway, you get the idea. :)
natzero 10-15-07, 11:45 PM	as far as i can tell one can use manyshot with shot on the run. As a full round action (effectively both standard and move action combined) move and use your attack (which is a standard action) Many shot basically lets you make a full attack, with the stipulation that you have to be within 30 ft, and you get only one target.Allowing them to do that, and then move agian, is alot more powerfull, allowing them to ignore the 30 ft range restiction to an extent, and allowing them to fill a slower enemy full of arrows every round while still staying out of range. You must remember that the penalties are there aswell. Yes you can make someone a walking target that cannot get to you. if you can do it in melee (ie. spring attack) whos to say you cant do it with a bow (ie. skirmishing) If a scout can move 30 ft (human no magic 1st level) and then attack for more damage (move + standard) then why cant another archer move 10ft attack manyshot (standard action) then more the rest of their 30 ft. All shot on the run lets you do is split your move into two smaller parts of the same move action. Last point, if you could not use many shot with shot on the run no one would use it at all. Case and point you can move your full distance (move action) and then use manyshot in the same round. You save a feat, just by using your move action once. Would being able to move 10 then 20 make it worth using a feat if you couldnt even do something you could do as a less qualified archer? Get real, shot on the run is useful for really one thing i can think of, move in 15 feet to get benefit of point blank shot or sneak attack, then moving back 15 to step right back out of range of your enemy's attack. Nothing more nothing less, its just something real life archers have practiced for hundreds of years. Thank you :)
Salla 10-16-07, 12:02 AM	as far as i can tell one can use manyshot with shot on the run. As a full round action (effectively both standard and move action combined) move and use your attack (which is a standard action) You must remember that the penalties are there aswell. Yes you can make someone a walking target that cannot get to you. if you can do it in melee (ie. spring attack) whos to say you cant do it with a bow (ie. skirmishing) If a scout can move 30 ft (human no magic 1st level) and then attack for more damage (move + standard) then why cant another archer move 10ft attack manyshot (standard action) then more the rest of their 30 ft. All shot on the run lets you do is split your move into two smaller parts of the same move action. Last point, if you could not use many shot with shot on the run no one would use it at all. Case and point you can move your full distance (move action) and then use manyshot in the same round. You save a feat, just by using your move action once. Would being able to move 10 then 20 make it worth using a feat if you couldnt even do something you could do as a less qualified archer? Get real, shot on the run is useful for really one thing i can think of, move in 15 feet to get benefit of point blank shot or sneak attack, then moving back 15 to step right back out of range of your enemy's attack. Nothing more nothing less, its just something real life archers have practiced for hundreds of years. Thank you :) Afraid not. Shot on the Run: "When using the attack action with a ranged weapon ..." Manyshot: "As a standard action. You may fire two arrows ..." Attack Action and Standard Action are two different things. Manyshot and Shot on the Run cannot be combined.
BugHunter 10-16-07, 12:36 AM	Attack Action and Standard Action are two different things. Manyshot and Shot on the Run cannot be combined. Funny looking at the PHB table 8-2 I donn't see a section labeled as "Attack Action" I see one label "Standard Action" with attack (ranged) as a type of standard action.
dman11235 10-16-07, 02:51 AM	Not this again. This was settled in another thread. The attack action is a special standard action, and so is manyshot. You cannot use the two together.
Dead_Weasel 10-16-07, 03:06 AM	Funny looking at the PHB table 8-2 I donn't see a section labeled as "Attack Action" I see one label "Standard Action" with attack (ranged) as a type of standard action.Exactly. Making an attack is a type of standard action, and using Manyshot is another type of standard action. Shot On The Run lets you move before and after you "[use] the attack action with a ranged weapon," Manyshot lets you "fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet." Hence, by RAW, you cannot benefit from both feats at the same time. I agree that it would be a reasonable houserule, but that is precisely what it would be: a house rule.
runestar 10-16-07, 04:04 AM	Simply put - you can use a standard action to make an attack action, but you cannot use an attack action to perform a standard action. That is the distinction made in this scenario. If a scout can move 30 ft (human no magic 1st level) and then attack for more damage (move + standard) then why cant another archer move 10ft attack manyshot (standard action) then more the rest of their 30 ft. You have just made an argument about why you feel that manyshot should be allowed to combine with shot on the run. However, this is not how they do work under the current interpretation. Houserule it in your games if you must. It doesn't change anything.:) Last point, if you could not use many shot with shot on the run no one would use it at all. And no one ever does. What is your point?;)
Frugal 10-16-07, 09:43 AM	Funny looking at the PHB table 8-2 I donn't see a section labeled as "Attack Action" I see one label "Standard Action" with attack (ranged) as a type of standard action. By that argument, if something says "when you perform a trip action" it doesn't work because there's no section labelled "Trip action", therefore trips don't exist. Attack is a specific standard action, shot on the run only allows that specific action because it explicitly specifies that single action, not the entire category of actions that it happens to be part of. Compare shot on the run with flyby attack, flyby attack explicitly states you can perform a standard action during the move, so manyshot would work with that, but shot on the run is limited to a single ranged attack.
Salla 10-16-07, 02:16 PM	And no one ever does. What is your point?;) The only way Shot on the Run really becomes worth it, as far as I can determine, is if your DM is a stickler for cover rules. This lets you duck out from behind cover, take a shot, and move back behind cover. This also assumes your DM likes battlefields with lots of terrain features.
Igfig 10-16-07, 04:43 PM	Yes, I find it's much more powerful in D20 Modern and SWRPG, where cover is a more integral part of combat. And in Saga Edition, they made it even more desirable, since Shot On The Run, Spring Attack, and Flyby Attack were combined into one feat whose only prerequisite is Dex 13. Incidentally, you actually can use the Multishot equivalent in those games with Shot On The Run. I'm definitely considering house-ruling the two to work together, maybe at the expense of a feat.
RysanMarquise 10-16-07, 06:21 PM	It seems entirely within the spirit of the ability for multi shot and shot on the run to work together. The ability is neither broken nor easy to get. Most DMs will be fine with this because they focus mostly upon how the rules seem intended to be played. Playing the game with painfully verbatum arguements where we get into an attack vs an attack action versus a standard action used to attack just opens up more exploits than it fixes.
runestar 10-16-07, 08:54 PM	Most DMs will be fine with this because they focus mostly upon how the rules seem intended to be played. Not my problem. If you as a DM is fine with this, then feel free to houserule however you see fit in your games.:) The OP asked a question, we answered him. It is that simple and straightforward. It seems entirely within the spirit of the ability for multi shot and shot on the run to work together. Perhaps, who are we to know what the spirit of the rules entail? For all we know, maybe the designer really did not want them to stack.
Archangel_Tyrael 10-16-07, 09:05 PM	The only way Shot on the Run really becomes worth it, as far as I can determine, is if your DM is a stickler for cover rules. This lets you duck out from behind cover, take a shot, and move back behind cover. This also assumes your DM likes battlefields with lots of terrain features. Even then, it's only gonna work once. Next time you pop out, you're gonna get hit with all the enemy's held-action Manyshots (or worse, a held-action breath weapon). :D But anyway... Manyshot and Shot on the Run don't work together. I remember the original thread... /shudder.
Operation_Shoestring 10-17-07, 01:31 AM	The only way Shot on the Run really becomes worth it, as far as I can determine, is if your DM is a stickler for cover rules. This lets you duck out from behind cover, take a shot, and move back behind cover. This also assumes your DM likes battlefields with lots of terrain features. Actually it;s very fun to use if you're the DM. Dark room full of pillars populated by evil Kulkek(?) sneaks with the shot on the run feat and hand crossbows. Very frustrating for players to advance through. Especially since you can always rule that payers must make spot/listen checks for strafe attacks or be flat footed to increase the pain.
Midrealm_DM 10-17-07, 12:44 PM	can i use rapid shot and shot on the run in the same turn,or just one of time? . or . can i use many shot and shot on the run in the same turn,or just one at a time? From Wizards of the Coast help pages "The short answer is no, these feats cannot be utilized simultaneously, since Manyshot requires a standard action, Rapid Shot requires a full attack action, and Shot on the Run requires an attack action. For a more detailed answer, see page 15 of the 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons FAQ." A minor correction, the answer is somewhat outdated as the question is on p 37 of the Faq. - It is true that no category of actions is called “attack actions” in the D&D game, but there is an action called attack—it’s the first action described under Standard Actions on page 139 in the Player’s Handbook. - It might seem that the folks who say no Manyshot with Shot On the Run are slicing the baloney a little thin, but the letter of the rules is on their side, and so is the intent behind the letter of the rules. The Manyshot feat description could say you fire multiple arrows with the attack action, but it doesn’t. Manyshot is a standard action, not a variant on the attack action (see the feat description on page 97 in the Player’s Handbook). - Likewise, the Shot on the Run feat could allow you to make any kind of ranged attack while moving, but it doesn’t. When using Shot on the Run, you must use the attack action with a ranged weapon (see the feat description on page 100 in the Player’s Handbook). This rules out using spells, most magic items, or special standard actions such as the Manyshot feat when making a Shot on the Run. That’s because casting a spell would require the cast a spell action (described on page 140 of the Player’s Handbook), using any magic item except for some use-activated items would require the activate magic item action (Player’s Handbook, page 142), and, as already noted here, using the Manyshot feat is a standard action. Most magic weapons are use activated and don’t require any action to activate at all (see page 213 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide), so you can use these weapons along with the attack action. For example, you could use a +1 longbow or +1 arrow (or both) with the attack action, and thus you also could use these items with Shot on the Run.
Operation_Shoestring 10-17-07, 03:58 PM	But you can use manyshot with skirmish right? So long as you use your move action to move 10', before or after your standard action for manyshot.
dman11235 10-17-07, 04:52 PM	yes. but manyshot won't let you get precicion based damage on every arrow, just one. Greater many shot (SRD or expanded psionics handbook) will lett you do that.
BugHunter 10-17-07, 08:38 PM	But you can use manyshot with skirmish right? So long as you use your move action to move 10', before or after your standard action for manyshot. Skirmish damage only applies after moving at least 10'. So you would need to move and then use manyshot. Here is the text from the Complete Adventurer errata. "She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn. The extra damage applies only to attacks made after the scout has moved at least 10 feet."