Skeletal Minion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Skeletal Minion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tevin Kevlak
02-28-07, 04:40 AM I'm currently creating a Necromancer/Cleric of Myrkul going into True Necromancer and the Skeletal Minion alternate class feature presented in Unearthed Arcana caught my eye. I'm dismayed however, that the Skeletal Minions effectiveness is based on your Necromancer level and as such I have created a feat that bypasses this problem. What I am asking of you is what you think of it, and whether it is balanced or over powered or what have you.

Improved Skeletal Minion [General]
Prerequisites: Skeletal Minion class feature.
Benefit: When determining the bonus hit die, natural armor bonus, and bonuses to strength and dexterity you may use your character level.
Normal: When determining the hit die, natural armor bonus, and bonuses to strength and dexterity you use only your Necromancer level.

Well, what do you all think?
katarl
02-28-07, 12:15 PM Maybe tack on a few extra bonuses to make it balanced? Maybe corpsecrafter or variant bonuses?

Generally its not a good idea to create a feat to bypass a single problem you have, especially not so neatly, thats the path to munchkindom, but I would say that such a necromantically orientated character deserves this feat for free. You don't need to go into any real trouble, because it doesn't damage the game, and it suits the concept.

If you're really determined about this feat, then tack on a few things or penalties to make it more powerful, and flavourful.
Xippendollom Krakenwarren
02-28-07, 12:42 PM I think this would be a perfect way to create one of those hybrid feats like they have in a few books (Ascetic Knight, etc.)

I'd have it require something that both Cleric, Necromancer and True Necromancer levels have, and have it add those two levels together.

Say, for the purposes of determining the abilities of your Skeletal Minion, add your necromancer level and all levels that gain turning attempts.

But worded much, much better.
Darth Sephiroth
02-28-07, 06:27 PM Linked Necromancer [General]
Your command of the Undead is almost unbelievable.
Prerequisites: Skeletal Minion, Rebuke/Command Undead, Ability to cast at least one second level Arcane and Divine Spells of the Necromacy school
Benefit: Your level in Necromancer and Cleric determine your Skeletal Minions abilities. Your Cleric and Necromancer levels stack to determine your Rebuke/Turn abilities.
Tevin Kevlak
03-01-07, 03:10 AM Linked Necromancer [General]
Your command of the Undead is almost unbelievable.
Prerequisites: Skeletal Minion, Rebuke/Command Undead
Benefit: Your HD determines your Skeletal Minions abilities. Your Cleric and Necromancer levels stack to determine your Caster Level and Rebuke/Turn abilities.

That seems a bit much to me... Such a character would gain a CL in divine and arcane spells of 20 and rebuke as a level 20 cleric at level 20 as well as gain the benefits of skeletal minion with all class levels (the way you've worded the feat even Fighter levels could grant you skeletal minion bonuses).
Darth Sephiroth
03-01-07, 03:16 AM That seems a bit much to me... Such a character would gain a CL in divine and arcane spells of 20 and rebuke as a level 20 cleric at level 20 as well as gain the benefits of skeletal minion with all class levels (the way you've worded the feat even Fighter levels could grant you skeletal minion bonuses).

Weakened it slightly and clarified
Tevin Kevlak
03-01-07, 03:26 AM That seems more reasonable and it wouldn't be too powerful considering that at level 20 I'd Rebuke undead as a level 17 cleric so I'd only gain 3 effective cleric levels for rebuking. However, while this feat would work well for my character it has an abusability factor. Rebuking undead is a very useful ability especially when you're character is all about undead so I don't see any reason why all Necromancer's wouldn't take 1 level of cleric and this feat and then go Necromancer 19. It sets your spell progression on par with a sorcerer (gaining new spells 1 level slower than the normal wizard progression) but the ability to rebuke undead as a 20th level cleric and cast 9th level arcane spells seems like more than a great trade off for the slightly stunted spell progression.
Darth Sephiroth
03-01-07, 04:43 AM Modified it again to make sure you have at least 3 levels in each class. (Requiring 2nd level spells from each)
RavingDork
03-01-07, 12:19 PM A little on the powerful side...

Improved Skeletal Minion [General]
Prerequisites: Skeletal Minion class feature.
Benefit: When determining all of the level-based abilities and bonuses for your skeletal minion, you may use your highest class' caster level instead of your necromancer level.
Example: A Necromancer 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3, would be considered 6th-level instead of 3rd for the purposes of his Skeletal Minion.
Normal: When determining the hit die, natural armor bonus, and bonuses to strength and dexterity you use only your Necromancer level.

The changes in red are what I would recomend.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tevin Kevlak 02-28-07, 04:40 AM	I'm currently creating a Necromancer/Cleric of Myrkul going into True Necromancer and the Skeletal Minion alternate class feature presented in Unearthed Arcana caught my eye. I'm dismayed however, that the Skeletal Minions effectiveness is based on your Necromancer level and as such I have created a feat that bypasses this problem. What I am asking of you is what you think of it, and whether it is balanced or over powered or what have you. Improved Skeletal Minion [General] Prerequisites: Skeletal Minion class feature. Benefit: When determining the bonus hit die, natural armor bonus, and bonuses to strength and dexterity you may use your character level. Normal: When determining the hit die, natural armor bonus, and bonuses to strength and dexterity you use only your Necromancer level. Well, what do you all think?
katarl 02-28-07, 12:15 PM	Maybe tack on a few extra bonuses to make it balanced? Maybe corpsecrafter or variant bonuses? Generally its not a good idea to create a feat to bypass a single problem you have, especially not so neatly, thats the path to munchkindom, but I would say that such a necromantically orientated character deserves this feat for free. You don't need to go into any real trouble, because it doesn't damage the game, and it suits the concept. If you're really determined about this feat, then tack on a few things or penalties to make it more powerful, and flavourful.
Xippendollom Krakenwarren 02-28-07, 12:42 PM	I think this would be a perfect way to create one of those hybrid feats like they have in a few books (Ascetic Knight, etc.) I'd have it require something that both Cleric, Necromancer and True Necromancer levels have, and have it add those two levels together. Say, for the purposes of determining the abilities of your Skeletal Minion, add your necromancer level and all levels that gain turning attempts. But worded much, much better.
Darth Sephiroth 02-28-07, 06:27 PM	Linked Necromancer [General] Your command of the Undead is almost unbelievable. Prerequisites: Skeletal Minion, Rebuke/Command Undead, Ability to cast at least one second level Arcane and Divine Spells of the Necromacy school Benefit: Your level in Necromancer and Cleric determine your Skeletal Minions abilities. Your Cleric and Necromancer levels stack to determine your Rebuke/Turn abilities.
Tevin Kevlak 03-01-07, 03:10 AM	Linked Necromancer [General] Your command of the Undead is almost unbelievable. Prerequisites: Skeletal Minion, Rebuke/Command Undead Benefit: Your HD determines your Skeletal Minions abilities. Your Cleric and Necromancer levels stack to determine your Caster Level and Rebuke/Turn abilities. That seems a bit much to me... Such a character would gain a CL in divine and arcane spells of 20 and rebuke as a level 20 cleric at level 20 as well as gain the benefits of skeletal minion with all class levels (the way you've worded the feat even Fighter levels could grant you skeletal minion bonuses).
Darth Sephiroth 03-01-07, 03:16 AM	That seems a bit much to me... Such a character would gain a CL in divine and arcane spells of 20 and rebuke as a level 20 cleric at level 20 as well as gain the benefits of skeletal minion with all class levels (the way you've worded the feat even Fighter levels could grant you skeletal minion bonuses). Weakened it slightly and clarified
Tevin Kevlak 03-01-07, 03:26 AM	That seems more reasonable and it wouldn't be too powerful considering that at level 20 I'd Rebuke undead as a level 17 cleric so I'd only gain 3 effective cleric levels for rebuking. However, while this feat would work well for my character it has an abusability factor. Rebuking undead is a very useful ability especially when you're character is all about undead so I don't see any reason why all Necromancer's wouldn't take 1 level of cleric and this feat and then go Necromancer 19. It sets your spell progression on par with a sorcerer (gaining new spells 1 level slower than the normal wizard progression) but the ability to rebuke undead as a 20th level cleric and cast 9th level arcane spells seems like more than a great trade off for the slightly stunted spell progression.
Darth Sephiroth 03-01-07, 04:43 AM	Modified it again to make sure you have at least 3 levels in each class. (Requiring 2nd level spells from each)
RavingDork 03-01-07, 12:19 PM	A little on the powerful side... Improved Skeletal Minion [General] Prerequisites: Skeletal Minion class feature. Benefit: When determining all of the level-based abilities and bonuses for your skeletal minion, you may use your highest class' caster level instead of your necromancer level. Example: A Necromancer 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3, would be considered 6th-level instead of 3rd for the purposes of his Skeletal Minion. Normal: When determining the hit die, natural armor bonus, and bonuses to strength and dexterity you use only your Necromancer level. The changes in red are what I would recomend.