Skill changes and such [Archive] - Wizards Community

Skill changes and such [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stormonu
06-25-07, 07:35 PM With some of the newer completes out, I've been doing some thinking lately on changes to the skill system. I thought I'd put them up here to see what others think: stuff in brackets "[ ]" is material I'm considering including to further expand the rules.

Skill Stunts: For the cost of 2 skill points, you can take a skill stunt in any skill in which you have 5 or more ranks. When taking a skill stunt, you must specify the skill you are taking the stunt for [and the Action which you want the skill stunt to work for - example Skill Stunt (Climb, Quick Climb) or Skill Stunt (Appraise, Determine Magic Item Properties)]. Thereafter, when using the Skill [Action], you gain a +15 bonus to the check. Each skill stunt can be used once per day. You cannot have more than 1 skill stunt per 2 character levels. [You may only take skill stunts in skills that are Class skills for you.] You may take the same Skill Stunt, the bonus stacks or you gain an extra use per day. No skill stunt can grant more than a +30 bonus to a skill check, however.

Preface: Appraise - along with Use Rope has got to be one of the most useless skills in the game. I've not seen any game, beyond my use below, even use this skill in game
Appraise: You can appraise common items with a value less than 1 gp with a DC 10 Appraise check. Items of greater value have an increasing DC, as shown below:

DC 10 - Item of value up to 1 gp
DC 11 - Item of value 2 - 100 gp
DC 12 - Item of value 101 - 500 gp
DC 13 - Item of value 501 - 1,000 gp
DC 14 - Item of value 1,000 - 1,500 gp
DC 15 - Item of value 1,501 - 2,000 gp
DC 16 - Item of value 2,001 - 4,000 gp
DC 17 - Item of value 4,001 - 6,000 gp
DC 18 - Item of value 6,001 - 8,000 gp
DC 19 - Item of value 8,001 - 10,000 gp
DC 20 - Item of value 10,001 - 20,000 gp
DC 21 - Item of value 20,001 - 30,000 gp
DC 22 - Item of value 30,001 - 40,000 gp
DC 23 - Item of value 40,001 - 50,000 gp
DC 24 - Item of value 50,001 - 60,000 gp
DC 25 - Item of value 60,001 - 75,000 gp
DC 26 - Item of value 75,001 - 100,000 gp
DC 27 - Item of value 100,001 - 125,000 gp
DC 28 - Item of value 125,001 - 150,000 gp
DC 29 - Item of value 150,001 - 175,000 gp
DC 30 - Item of value 175,001 - 200,000 gp
DC 31 - Item of value 200,001 - 250,000 gp
DC 32 - Item of value 250,001 - 300,000 gp
DC 33 - Item of value 300,001 - 350,000 gp
DC 34 - Item of value 350,001 - 400,000 gp
Add +1 DC for each extra +100,000 gp of value.

When you make an appraise check and do not meet the DC of the item, you know that its value is "at least as much" as your check result. For example, if you were appraising a suit of masterwork Full Plate Mail (1,650 gp - DC 15 Appraise check) and got a result of 13, you'd know the suit was worth "at least" 1,000 gp.
When you sell items, you sell stuff for what you know it to be worth (in the case above, you'd lose about 325 gp on the sale, assuming you get 50% of the item value).

Appraise Magic Item: Determining that an item you are appraising has magical properties adds +10 to the DC. Thus, not only must you accurately appraise the items true value, you must exceed the DC by 10 to determine the magical properties of the item. Certain magic items (such as a Ring of Elemental Command) can be accidentally appraised as a lesser quality item. For example, properly identifying a Ring of Air Elemental Command (200,000 gp) is a DC 40 Appraise check, but a result of 26-39 would incorrectly identify it as a Ring of Feather Falling.

Action: Appraising an item takes 1 minute to examine the item.
You can take 10, but not 20 on an Appraise check. You cannot try an appraise check again until you gain more ranks in the skill. Synergy and equipment bonuses do not change.

This is a change aimed to assist groups without Clerics, though the Cleric class of course, gets a boost. The fact the skill limits to 1/2 hp will still make healing magic, potions and the likes worth keeping around.
Heal: (New Use)
Bind Wounds: You can use the heal skill to restore hit points to characters. The base DC is 12. For every 2 points you beat the base DC by, you heal an additional hit point. You cannot heal an individual above 1/2 their total hit points with this use of the heal skill.
Action:Binding wounds takes 1 minute per attempt.

This change is designed to take some of the punch out of Tumble. As it is, someone can tumble just as easily past a 20th level fighter as they could tumble past a goblin - which seems rather ridiculous. This change aims to change that.
Tumble:
Avoid Attack of Opportunity: As part of normal movement, you can tumble at 1/2 normal speed past an opponent and provoke no attack of opportunity. The DC is 12 + opponent's attack bonus. When tumbling past multiple enemies, each additional enemy adds +2 to the DC. Regardless of the number of opponents, make only one roll. Compare the result against each opponent individually. If you have the Mobility feat, you gain a +4 bonus to your Tumble check.
Tumble Through Enemy: As part of normal movement, tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied by an enemy, provoking no attacks of opportunity as you do so. The DC is 22 + opponent's attack bonus. Failure means you stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy. Regardless of the number of opponents you tumble past, make one check and compare the result against each enemy's DC. Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.

...And the most worthless skill of them all
Use Rope: Nix the skill; roll it into Climb, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) or Profession (Sailor) or some such profession work.

...Desperation Skill uses
You may use a "trained only" skill if you have no ranks by making a normal check at a -4 penalty. You may not retry a "trained only" skill you have no ranks in, even if the skill normally allows for retries. You may not take 10 or 20 on an "trained only" skill you are unskilled in, even if it normally allows such to be done. Using a "trained only" skill untrained takes 10 times longer than a normal use of the skill (minimum 1 full-round action). You may not attempt a "trained only" skill check when you have no ranks if an ally within 60 feet of you has ranks in the skill - you must defer to their use of the skill, even if they fail.
jaelis
06-25-07, 10:10 PM People make that complaint about tumble all the time, and I while I see the point, I don't really agree with it. I think if you make your tumble check, then you are simply able to move without dropping your guard, and so you don't provoke any more than someone just standing there would.

But if you are going to reinterpret as an opposed check, I really think you need to be fair and do the same thing for casting defensively. Make the DC 10 + spell-level + opponent's BAB or something similar. Otherwise you're just picking on the rogues and monks but letting spell-casters get off free.
Stormonu
06-25-07, 11:29 PM Not a bad idea; I guess I hadn't considered Concentration as it scaled already with the spell being cast. You are right though, If I'm going to pick on the tumblers, might as well do the same to the hand-wavers.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stormonu 06-25-07, 07:35 PM	With some of the newer completes out, I've been doing some thinking lately on changes to the skill system. I thought I'd put them up here to see what others think: stuff in brackets "[ ]" is material I'm considering including to further expand the rules. Skill Stunts: For the cost of 2 skill points, you can take a skill stunt in any skill in which you have 5 or more ranks. When taking a skill stunt, you must specify the skill you are taking the stunt for [and the Action which you want the skill stunt to work for - example Skill Stunt (Climb, Quick Climb) or Skill Stunt (Appraise, Determine Magic Item Properties)]. Thereafter, when using the Skill [Action], you gain a +15 bonus to the check. Each skill stunt can be used once per day. You cannot have more than 1 skill stunt per 2 character levels. [You may only take skill stunts in skills that are Class skills for you.] You may take the same Skill Stunt, the bonus stacks or you gain an extra use per day. No skill stunt can grant more than a +30 bonus to a skill check, however. Preface: Appraise - along with Use Rope has got to be one of the most useless skills in the game. I've not seen any game, beyond my use below, even use this skill in game Appraise: You can appraise common items with a value less than 1 gp with a DC 10 Appraise check. Items of greater value have an increasing DC, as shown below: DC 10 - Item of value up to 1 gp DC 11 - Item of value 2 - 100 gp DC 12 - Item of value 101 - 500 gp DC 13 - Item of value 501 - 1,000 gp DC 14 - Item of value 1,000 - 1,500 gp DC 15 - Item of value 1,501 - 2,000 gp DC 16 - Item of value 2,001 - 4,000 gp DC 17 - Item of value 4,001 - 6,000 gp DC 18 - Item of value 6,001 - 8,000 gp DC 19 - Item of value 8,001 - 10,000 gp DC 20 - Item of value 10,001 - 20,000 gp DC 21 - Item of value 20,001 - 30,000 gp DC 22 - Item of value 30,001 - 40,000 gp DC 23 - Item of value 40,001 - 50,000 gp DC 24 - Item of value 50,001 - 60,000 gp DC 25 - Item of value 60,001 - 75,000 gp DC 26 - Item of value 75,001 - 100,000 gp DC 27 - Item of value 100,001 - 125,000 gp DC 28 - Item of value 125,001 - 150,000 gp DC 29 - Item of value 150,001 - 175,000 gp DC 30 - Item of value 175,001 - 200,000 gp DC 31 - Item of value 200,001 - 250,000 gp DC 32 - Item of value 250,001 - 300,000 gp DC 33 - Item of value 300,001 - 350,000 gp DC 34 - Item of value 350,001 - 400,000 gp Add +1 DC for each extra +100,000 gp of value. When you make an appraise check and do not meet the DC of the item, you know that its value is "at least as much" as your check result. For example, if you were appraising a suit of masterwork Full Plate Mail (1,650 gp - DC 15 Appraise check) and got a result of 13, you'd know the suit was worth "at least" 1,000 gp. When you sell items, you sell stuff for what you know it to be worth (in the case above, you'd lose about 325 gp on the sale, assuming you get 50% of the item value). Appraise Magic Item: Determining that an item you are appraising has magical properties adds +10 to the DC. Thus, not only must you accurately appraise the items true value, you must exceed the DC by 10 to determine the magical properties of the item. Certain magic items (such as a Ring of Elemental Command) can be accidentally appraised as a lesser quality item. For example, properly identifying a Ring of Air Elemental Command (200,000 gp) is a DC 40 Appraise check, but a result of 26-39 would incorrectly identify it as a Ring of Feather Falling. Action: Appraising an item takes 1 minute to examine the item. You can take 10, but not 20 on an Appraise check. You cannot try an appraise check again until you gain more ranks in the skill. Synergy and equipment bonuses do not change. This is a change aimed to assist groups without Clerics, though the Cleric class of course, gets a boost. The fact the skill limits to 1/2 hp will still make healing magic, potions and the likes worth keeping around. Heal: (New Use) Bind Wounds: You can use the heal skill to restore hit points to characters. The base DC is 12. For every 2 points you beat the base DC by, you heal an additional hit point. You cannot heal an individual above 1/2 their total hit points with this use of the heal skill. Action:Binding wounds takes 1 minute per attempt. This change is designed to take some of the punch out of Tumble. As it is, someone can tumble just as easily past a 20th level fighter as they could tumble past a goblin - which seems rather ridiculous. This change aims to change that. Tumble: Avoid Attack of Opportunity: As part of normal movement, you can tumble at 1/2 normal speed past an opponent and provoke no attack of opportunity. The DC is 12 + opponent's attack bonus. When tumbling past multiple enemies, each additional enemy adds +2 to the DC. Regardless of the number of opponents, make only one roll. Compare the result against each opponent individually. If you have the Mobility feat, you gain a +4 bonus to your Tumble check. Tumble Through Enemy: As part of normal movement, tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied by an enemy, provoking no attacks of opportunity as you do so. The DC is 22 + opponent's attack bonus. Failure means you stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy. Regardless of the number of opponents you tumble past, make one check and compare the result against each enemy's DC. Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC. ...And the most worthless skill of them all Use Rope: Nix the skill; roll it into Climb, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) or Profession (Sailor) or some such profession work. ...Desperation Skill uses You may use a "trained only" skill if you have no ranks by making a normal check at a -4 penalty. You may not retry a "trained only" skill you have no ranks in, even if the skill normally allows for retries. You may not take 10 or 20 on an "trained only" skill you are unskilled in, even if it normally allows such to be done. Using a "trained only" skill untrained takes 10 times longer than a normal use of the skill (minimum 1 full-round action). You may not attempt a "trained only" skill check when you have no ranks if an ally within 60 feet of you has ranks in the skill - you must defer to their use of the skill, even if they fail.
jaelis 06-25-07, 10:10 PM	People make that complaint about tumble all the time, and I while I see the point, I don't really agree with it. I think if you make your tumble check, then you are simply able to move without dropping your guard, and so you don't provoke any more than someone just standing there would. But if you are going to reinterpret as an opposed check, I really think you need to be fair and do the same thing for casting defensively. Make the DC 10 + spell-level + opponent's BAB or something similar. Otherwise you're just picking on the rogues and monks but letting spell-casters get off free.
Stormonu 06-25-07, 11:29 PM	Not a bad idea; I guess I hadn't considered Concentration as it scaled already with the spell being cast. You are right though, If I'm going to pick on the tumblers, might as well do the same to the hand-wavers.