Skill trick questions - Sudden Draw and Hidden Blade [Archive] - Wizards Community

Skill trick questions - Sudden Draw and Hidden Blade [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The Phantom Flan Flinger
08-22-07, 03:54 AM I'm going to be using skill tricks for my current character, which is the first time I've looked at them.

Sudden Draw works when your opponent provokes an Attack of Opportunity. But if I'm not armed because my weapon is hidden, he won't provoke in the first place, right?

So what benefit is this skill trick meant to give? Am I reading it right - it only works if you already have one weapon out, so if you had e.g. a hidden poisoned dagger or something then you could choose to attack with that but only if you were already holding a sword? Seems kinda daft... I mean isn't the whole point of a concealed weapon, conceptually, supposed to be that you are pretending to be unarmed, such as scoffing vol-au-vents at the Ambassador's Ball or having been searched on entry to the Evil Lair by Mr Bigbad's heavies?

I suppose I'm hoping that the description is poor and the way it works is that I can have an AOO as though I had the weapon out, because I'm taking advantage of his lapse in concentration to draw it and stab.

While I'm here... Hidden Blade says I can draw a concealed weapon as a move action, and it has Quick Draw as a pre-req. But Quick Draw lets you draw a concealed weapon as a move action anyway. So all you get for this trick is to make him flat-footed? Or was it intended to make drawing even faster and they got it wrong in the description? Not that a free Sneak Attack is to be sneezed at, of course.

And finally, has anyone used either of these in actual play yet? Are they any good in practice?
Paul_profession_baker
08-22-07, 04:18 AM Sudden Draw works when your opponent provokes an Attack of Opportunity. But if I'm not armed because my weapon is hidden, he won't provoke in the first place, right?

So what benefit is this skill trick meant to give? Am I reading it right - it only works if you already have one weapon out, so if you had e.g. a hidden poisoned dagger or something then you could choose to attack with that but only if you were already holding a sword? Seems kinda daft... I mean isn't the whole point of a concealed weapon, conceptually, supposed to be that you are pretending to be unarmed, such as scoffing vol-au-vents at the Ambassador's Ball or having been searched on entry to the Evil Lair by Mr Bigbad's heavies?

Your right, it is kind of poor. The only thing I see is to take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. You are considered armed even when unarmed. You then get that AoO and the skill trick is alot more versatile. Now, is wasting one feat to achieve this worth it?? I don't know, I have never used it so I can't really judge it's effect on game play.
zeratulcraft
08-22-07, 04:31 AM Don't think of it as they don't provoke, think of it as they ARE provoking but you cannot NORMALLY take the AoO.
1 ton ghost
08-23-07, 02:22 PM i don't have Scoundrel in front of me to which i apologize (at work) and i'd like to give you a more thorough anaylsis on it.

i've had an assassin "Pocket Fox" use it w/ much acclaim. if someone's drawing an AoO, the fight has already broken out most likely. he simply isn't expecting you to whip out this hidden weapon and get a sneak attack on him when you would traditionally just strike him w/ regular melee, etc. it's especially useful when they are trying to escape and draw an AoO they think they could endure (a regular melee)...just not a sneak attack, much less a poisoned blade.

specifically, most ppl will not draw an AoO if they're flanked to begin w/. why draw 2? if they're flanked and know you're a rogue type, yeah, see where this is going? but when they don't think you're eligible for SA, great. or, maybe you just have a dinky weapon out and they think they can handle d4 dmg, or they just have tremendously good Dex. many many variables. it's useful when pressing and enemy, typically a sentient humanoid w/ many options, hence drawing an AoO.
i've been known to risk an AoO myself particularly if it's a movement one and i have Mobility just to allow my friends to get in position...assuming he doesn't have Combat Reflexes, but that's another argument.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Phantom Flan Flinger 08-22-07, 03:54 AM	I'm going to be using skill tricks for my current character, which is the first time I've looked at them. Sudden Draw works when your opponent provokes an Attack of Opportunity. But if I'm not armed because my weapon is hidden, he won't provoke in the first place, right? So what benefit is this skill trick meant to give? Am I reading it right - it only works if you already have one weapon out, so if you had e.g. a hidden poisoned dagger or something then you could choose to attack with that but only if you were already holding a sword? Seems kinda daft... I mean isn't the whole point of a concealed weapon, conceptually, supposed to be that you are pretending to be unarmed, such as scoffing vol-au-vents at the Ambassador's Ball or having been searched on entry to the Evil Lair by Mr Bigbad's heavies? I suppose I'm hoping that the description is poor and the way it works is that I can have an AOO as though I had the weapon out, because I'm taking advantage of his lapse in concentration to draw it and stab. While I'm here... Hidden Blade says I can draw a concealed weapon as a move action, and it has Quick Draw as a pre-req. But Quick Draw lets you draw a concealed weapon as a move action anyway. So all you get for this trick is to make him flat-footed? Or was it intended to make drawing even faster and they got it wrong in the description? Not that a free Sneak Attack is to be sneezed at, of course. And finally, has anyone used either of these in actual play yet? Are they any good in practice?
Paul_profession_baker 08-22-07, 04:18 AM	Sudden Draw works when your opponent provokes an Attack of Opportunity. But if I'm not armed because my weapon is hidden, he won't provoke in the first place, right? So what benefit is this skill trick meant to give? Am I reading it right - it only works if you already have one weapon out, so if you had e.g. a hidden poisoned dagger or something then you could choose to attack with that but only if you were already holding a sword? Seems kinda daft... I mean isn't the whole point of a concealed weapon, conceptually, supposed to be that you are pretending to be unarmed, such as scoffing vol-au-vents at the Ambassador's Ball or having been searched on entry to the Evil Lair by Mr Bigbad's heavies? Your right, it is kind of poor. The only thing I see is to take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. You are considered armed even when unarmed. You then get that AoO and the skill trick is alot more versatile. Now, is wasting one feat to achieve this worth it?? I don't know, I have never used it so I can't really judge it's effect on game play.
zeratulcraft 08-22-07, 04:31 AM	Don't think of it as they don't provoke, think of it as they ARE provoking but you cannot NORMALLY take the AoO.
1 ton ghost 08-23-07, 02:22 PM	i don't have Scoundrel in front of me to which i apologize (at work) and i'd like to give you a more thorough anaylsis on it. i've had an assassin "Pocket Fox" use it w/ much acclaim. if someone's drawing an AoO, the fight has already broken out most likely. he simply isn't expecting you to whip out this hidden weapon and get a sneak attack on him when you would traditionally just strike him w/ regular melee, etc. it's especially useful when they are trying to escape and draw an AoO they think they could endure (a regular melee)...just not a sneak attack, much less a poisoned blade. specifically, most ppl will not draw an AoO if they're flanked to begin w/. why draw 2? if they're flanked and know you're a rogue type, yeah, see where this is going? but when they don't think you're eligible for SA, great. or, maybe you just have a dinky weapon out and they think they can handle d4 dmg, or they just have tremendously good Dex. many many variables. it's useful when pressing and enemy, typically a sentient humanoid w/ many options, hence drawing an AoO. i've been known to risk an AoO myself particularly if it's a movement one and i have Mobility just to allow my friends to get in position...assuming he doesn't have Combat Reflexes, but that's another argument.