Skills with Skeleton [Archive] - Wizards Community

Skills with Skeleton [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
VampyresThrenody
12-06-07, 09:18 PM In the MM it states that skeletons do not have skills.
However, can they use skills untrained? It seems plain that they could climb and jump but what about swim, ride or dex-based skills?

I ask because I have a cleric character with 5 human skeletons mounted on 5 10 HD megaraptors. The megaraptors are also skeletons. Would the human skels require ride to be able to ride the megaraptor skeletons? Both are under control by the cleric based off of the Animate Dead spell. Can someone help me out or direct me to where I should ask this?
Cyruscore
12-06-07, 09:51 PM The trick about undead is that they are unintelligent. As such, they can't do any complex actions. They can pick up a sword and slice something but something like protecting themselves with a shield is beyond them. I think ride is too complex. However, there is a spell in the spell compendium, awaken undead, that you could look up. It restores some intelligence to the undead and gives them access to many actions that they could do while they were alive.

Edit: Plus the spell isn't too high in spell level either so it should be accessible to your cleric. Still look it up for the exact rules.
Kedami
12-06-07, 09:52 PM I'd say that they can use skills untrained. It just says that because they're mindless they don't get feats or skill points.

Edit: After eading the person's post right before mine I realised that maybe I was wrong. I am convinced.
VampyresThrenody
12-06-07, 10:37 PM I do plan on using Awaken but it is a 6th level spell that I do not yet have access to.
The skeleton in the MM uses a shield, in response to their ability to defend. They also get their dex bonus which means they will attempt to dodge attacks. Skeletons are mindless and cannot follow complex commands, but I assume getting them to do this wouldn't be too difficult I just wonder whether they would have to attempt ride checks, if per say, I wanted the raptor to attack while a skeleton was mounted on the back. The PHB states that it's a DC 10 ride check to get the mount to attack while being ridden.

I figured the command line would look something like this:
"Get on the raptor."
"Charge."
Two commands, real simple.

Now if I command the raptor:
Ride forward. Carry Skeleton. Attack.
InkBlot
12-07-07, 12:21 AM They technically can use skills, but if you're roleplaying them right then there would have to be some very extra-ordinary circumstances to get them to make the attempt. Since they don't get skill points, they can only use skills which can be used untrained. Simple physical skills, like jump or climb, make the most sense.

As for ride...

Necro: "Sit on the horse."
Zombie: "Rrrrurughg."
Necro: (Puts the reigns in the Zombie's hands) "Hold on to this and don't let go."
Zombie: "Uuurghhghghlggl."

They might not be smart enough to use the ride skill to direct the horse to go anywhere, but it should be dumb enough to use the ride skill to hold onto the saddle.

edit: Come to think of it, I think there's actually a rule stating that a creature with an int of -- can't use int based skills at all (even if the skill weren't trained-only and the creature somehow had skill points).
Salla
12-07-07, 12:54 AM From the SRD under 'Nonabilities'.

Intelligence
Any creature that can think, learn, or remember has at least 1 point of Intelligence. A creature with no Intelligence score is mindless, an automaton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions. It has immunity to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) and automatically fails Intelligence checks.

Mindless creatures do not gain feats or skills, although they may have bonus feats or racial skill bonuses.

Though technically an intelligence check is not the same as a skill check with Intelligence as the key ability, I think it's a fair ruling that a mindless creature fails INT-based skill checks.
1 ton ghost
12-07-07, 12:35 PM that's tricky. if it's scene dependent, let them Ride, they have a decent Dex and the mount in question can't get spooked, etc. no specific combat manuevers; fast dismount, leap, etc. they're more like dragoons than cavalry. that is, ride to point 'A', dismount, engage.

swim is out, they sink, nonbouyant i think.
climb is worth the attempt, though it will result in hilarity
everything else is kidna' up in the air.

they make better foot soldiers anyway. i mean, you can force march them 24hrs/day w/ no fatigue. that's way more mobility than an average army and you don't need a supply train to accomodate them. simply cannibalize enemy gear if you must.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
VampyresThrenody 12-06-07, 09:18 PM	In the MM it states that skeletons do not have skills. However, can they use skills untrained? It seems plain that they could climb and jump but what about swim, ride or dex-based skills? I ask because I have a cleric character with 5 human skeletons mounted on 5 10 HD megaraptors. The megaraptors are also skeletons. Would the human skels require ride to be able to ride the megaraptor skeletons? Both are under control by the cleric based off of the Animate Dead spell. Can someone help me out or direct me to where I should ask this?
Cyruscore 12-06-07, 09:51 PM	The trick about undead is that they are unintelligent. As such, they can't do any complex actions. They can pick up a sword and slice something but something like protecting themselves with a shield is beyond them. I think ride is too complex. However, there is a spell in the spell compendium, awaken undead, that you could look up. It restores some intelligence to the undead and gives them access to many actions that they could do while they were alive. Edit: Plus the spell isn't too high in spell level either so it should be accessible to your cleric. Still look it up for the exact rules.
Kedami 12-06-07, 09:52 PM	I'd say that they can use skills untrained. It just says that because they're mindless they don't get feats or skill points. Edit: After eading the person's post right before mine I realised that maybe I was wrong. I am convinced.
VampyresThrenody 12-06-07, 10:37 PM	I do plan on using Awaken but it is a 6th level spell that I do not yet have access to. The skeleton in the MM uses a shield, in response to their ability to defend. They also get their dex bonus which means they will attempt to dodge attacks. Skeletons are mindless and cannot follow complex commands, but I assume getting them to do this wouldn't be too difficult I just wonder whether they would have to attempt ride checks, if per say, I wanted the raptor to attack while a skeleton was mounted on the back. The PHB states that it's a DC 10 ride check to get the mount to attack while being ridden. I figured the command line would look something like this: "Get on the raptor." "Charge." Two commands, real simple. Now if I command the raptor: Ride forward. Carry Skeleton. Attack.
InkBlot 12-07-07, 12:21 AM	They technically can use skills, but if you're roleplaying them right then there would have to be some very extra-ordinary circumstances to get them to make the attempt. Since they don't get skill points, they can only use skills which can be used untrained. Simple physical skills, like jump or climb, make the most sense. As for ride... Necro: "Sit on the horse." Zombie: "Rrrrurughg." Necro: (Puts the reigns in the Zombie's hands) "Hold on to this and don't let go." Zombie: "Uuurghhghghlggl." They might not be smart enough to use the ride skill to direct the horse to go anywhere, but it should be dumb enough to use the ride skill to hold onto the saddle. edit: Come to think of it, I think there's actually a rule stating that a creature with an int of -- can't use int based skills at all (even if the skill weren't trained-only and the creature somehow had skill points).
Salla 12-07-07, 12:54 AM	From the SRD under 'Nonabilities'. Intelligence Any creature that can think, learn, or remember has at least 1 point of Intelligence. A creature with no Intelligence score is mindless, an automaton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions. It has immunity to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) and automatically fails Intelligence checks. Mindless creatures do not gain feats or skills, although they may have bonus feats or racial skill bonuses. Though technically an intelligence check is not the same as a skill check with Intelligence as the key ability, I think it's a fair ruling that a mindless creature fails INT-based skill checks.
1 ton ghost 12-07-07, 12:35 PM	that's tricky. if it's scene dependent, let them Ride, they have a decent Dex and the mount in question can't get spooked, etc. no specific combat manuevers; fast dismount, leap, etc. they're more like dragoons than cavalry. that is, ride to point 'A', dismount, engage. swim is out, they sink, nonbouyant i think. climb is worth the attempt, though it will result in hilarity everything else is kidna' up in the air. they make better foot soldiers anyway. i mean, you can force march them 24hrs/day w/ no fatigue. that's way more mobility than an average army and you don't need a supply train to accomodate them. simply cannibalize enemy gear if you must.