Smite + Cleave [Archive] - Wizards Community

Smite + Cleave [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
UncleJoe
03-19-07, 10:51 AM Hi,

Help me out.

Question:
If Paladin with the cleave feat drops creature when using smite, do the extra attack also get the smite bonus??

Im asking because cleave feat says:
"The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature."
Frugal
03-19-07, 11:08 AM Hi,
Im asking because cleave feat says:
"The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature."

That just refers to the attack bonus, nothing else. So for instance, sneak attack damage won't apply (unless the other creature also qualifies for sneak attack).
MourninStar
03-19-07, 11:19 AM By the strict wording of the feat, he would get his Smite bonus; however I think the RAI would be BaB + Str + weapon bonus(es).

If said Paladin did get his Smite bonuses with the Cleave attack, though, would he also get them with Great Cleave? That has can of worms written all over it to me. I would think that since Smite is a very direct attack against a single target, all of the "energy" of the Smite would be expended against the first target.

So I'd be inclined to say that no, the Smite bonuses don't carry over to his Cleave attack.
tarkin
03-19-07, 11:25 AM If you take the literal meaning, then yes that is what it describes.

But the Sage/FAQ have made it quite certain that Cleave is one of MANY badly worded feats. This is yet more evidence that "RAW" (Rules As Written), is a joke, not a way to play the game.

You get only the same BAB when Cleaving, everything else changes depending on the situation.

Things you do not get on a Cleave, merely because your first attack had them:

Smite bonus
Charge bonus
Prone bonus
Higher ground bonus
True Strike bonus
Pretty much anything that is not in your BAB, and does not apply to the new attack.
Inigo Carmine
03-19-07, 11:47 AM Things you do not get on a Cleave, merely because your first attack had them:

Smite bonus
Charge bonus
Prone bonus
Higher ground bonus
True Strike bonus
Pretty much anything that is not in your BAB, and does not apply to the new attack.

Also includes:

Flanking bonus
Bane weapon bonuses
Racial bonuses (ie dwarves vs goblins)
Invisibility bonuses

Keep in mind that the opposite is true as well. If there is a bonus that would normally be applied to the second target, it is still applied even if it wasn't applicable to the first target.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-19-07, 12:09 PM Yeah, it's in the FAQ that you don't get smite/true strike, etc with cleave.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
UncleJoe 03-19-07, 10:51 AM	Hi, Help me out. Question: If Paladin with the cleave feat drops creature when using smite, do the extra attack also get the smite bonus?? Im asking because cleave feat says: "The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature."
Frugal 03-19-07, 11:08 AM	Hi, Im asking because cleave feat says: "The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature." That just refers to the attack bonus, nothing else. So for instance, sneak attack damage won't apply (unless the other creature also qualifies for sneak attack).
MourninStar 03-19-07, 11:19 AM	By the strict wording of the feat, he would get his Smite bonus; however I think the RAI would be BaB + Str + weapon bonus(es). If said Paladin did get his Smite bonuses with the Cleave attack, though, would he also get them with Great Cleave? That has can of worms written all over it to me. I would think that since Smite is a very direct attack against a single target, all of the "energy" of the Smite would be expended against the first target. So I'd be inclined to say that no, the Smite bonuses don't carry over to his Cleave attack.
tarkin 03-19-07, 11:25 AM	If you take the literal meaning, then yes that is what it describes. But the Sage/FAQ have made it quite certain that Cleave is one of MANY badly worded feats. This is yet more evidence that "RAW" (Rules As Written), is a joke, not a way to play the game. You get only the same BAB when Cleaving, everything else changes depending on the situation. Things you do not get on a Cleave, merely because your first attack had them: Smite bonus Charge bonus Prone bonus Higher ground bonus True Strike bonus Pretty much anything that is not in your BAB, and does not apply to the new attack.
Inigo Carmine 03-19-07, 11:47 AM	Things you do not get on a Cleave, merely because your first attack had them: Smite bonus Charge bonus Prone bonus Higher ground bonus True Strike bonus Pretty much anything that is not in your BAB, and does not apply to the new attack. Also includes: Flanking bonus Bane weapon bonuses Racial bonuses (ie dwarves vs goblins) Invisibility bonuses Keep in mind that the opposite is true as well. If there is a bonus that would normally be applied to the second target, it is still applied even if it wasn't applicable to the first target.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-19-07, 12:09 PM	Yeah, it's in the FAQ that you don't get smite/true strike, etc with cleave.