Snap Kick Combines with What Now? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Snap Kick Combines with What Now? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tectorman
09-19-07, 02:59 PM First off, I did do a search for help on this topic. I got so many different threads that I decided to start up yet another one (because with this one, I at least get to know whether my topic's being addressed or not). Just had to make sure I made that bit clear.

Snap Kick (ToB) grants you an additional attack at your highest BAB whenever you make a melee attack. It gives the examples of a standard attack, a full attack action, or a strike maneuver.

So, if I full attack, do I get a single additional attack or is it one add. attack per attack in the full attack action (essentially, double the number of attacks)? I'm thinking no, but I want to be sure.

What if the strike maneuver doesn't use an attack roll (Wyrm's Flame and other goodies from Desert Wind)?

Must the extra attack target the same opponent as the initial attack (usually impossible with a reach weapon, but...)?

What about AoOs? Do they even get an extra attack? If so, is it one additional attack during the entire not-your-turn period, or would it stack with Combat Reflexes (thereby doubling your AoOs for the round)? How would this work with retroactively applying the -2 penalty to the other attacks for that round?

Yeah, I know this is a poorly written feat that has probably had a lot of discussion devoted to it already, so if anyone could put in what the final words were on any of these problems, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
Nephlite
09-19-07, 03:06 PM First off, I did do a search for help on this topic. I got so many different threads that I decided to start up yet another one (because with this one, I at least get to know whether my topic's being addressed or not). Just had to make sure I made that bit clear.

Snap Kick (ToB) grants you an additional attack at your highest BAB whenever you make a melee attack. It gives the examples of a standard attack, a full attack action, or a strike maneuver.

So, if I full attack, do I get a single additional attack or is it one add. attack per attack in the full attack action (essentially, double the number of attacks)? I'm thinking no, but I want to be sure.

One extra, but remember even if you did get more than one: each one gives -2 penalty to hit.

"If" in theory you if you got two: all attacks get -4 hit.
So you get worse at hitting if you get more.

What if the strike maneuver doesn't use an attack roll (Wyrm's Flame and other goodies from Desert Wind)?

It says melee attack. If they is no melee attack roll: no snap kick. Wyrm's Flame is not a melee attack. It is a cone of fire: how do you get melee =cone?

Must the extra attack target the same opponent as the initial attack (usually impossible with a reach weapon, but...)?

No, you can change targets (you always can in a full attack), but extra attack is a unarmed strike so I don't think you can snap kick with a reach weapon.

What about AoOs? Do they even get an extra attack? If so, is it one additional attack during the entire not-your-turn period, or would it stack with Combat Reflexes (thereby doubling your AoOs for the round)? How would this work with retroactively applying the -2 penalty to the other attacks for that round?

Yeah, I know this is a poorly written feat that has probably had a lot of discussion devoted to it already, so if anyone could put in what the final words were on any of these problems, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

1 extra by my reading.
Vaelan
09-19-07, 04:36 PM Snap Kick is like TWF and every other feature that lets you trade attack roll bonuses for other benefits. You choose whether or not you use it at the beginning of your turn and it lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

As for only getting one Snap Kick across several AoOs, I don't see it. There is nothing in the text to even remotely hint at even the smallest suggestion that you only get one kick regardless of the number of attacks of opportunity. One Snap Kick per AoO.

Yeah, I know this is a poorly written feat...
The rule is quite clear. When you make a melee attack with one or more melee weapons, you get to kick them. That's it. People second-guessing it and making stuff up that isn't in any way reflected by the text isn't an indictment of the rule.
Dheran
09-19-07, 07:18 PM When you make a melee attack with one or more melee weapons (including a standard attack, full attack, or even a strike maneuver), you can make an additional attack at your highest attack bonus. What's a melee attack? It's one of the following:
standard action melee attack
full attack including at least one melee attack
attack of opportunity (always a melee attack)
By the language "with one or more melee weapons" it's clear that they're referring to multiple attacks as a single action. Any one of these valid melee attack actions grants you an (i.e., one) additional attack. Each AoO is a separate attack action, so you can (if you now impose the -2 penalty on both attacks, or you've already imposed it by taking a Snap Kick earlier in the round) also throw in an additional unarmed attack on the AoO.
Aryxbez
09-21-07, 05:04 PM Remember, combine that with Decisive strike variant in the PH2, and you can do 2 attacks for double damage. This also works with the fighters variant I'm sure as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tectorman 09-19-07, 02:59 PM	First off, I did do a search for help on this topic. I got so many different threads that I decided to start up yet another one (because with this one, I at least get to know whether my topic's being addressed or not). Just had to make sure I made that bit clear. Snap Kick (ToB) grants you an additional attack at your highest BAB whenever you make a melee attack. It gives the examples of a standard attack, a full attack action, or a strike maneuver. So, if I full attack, do I get a single additional attack or is it one add. attack per attack in the full attack action (essentially, double the number of attacks)? I'm thinking no, but I want to be sure. What if the strike maneuver doesn't use an attack roll (Wyrm's Flame and other goodies from Desert Wind)? Must the extra attack target the same opponent as the initial attack (usually impossible with a reach weapon, but...)? What about AoOs? Do they even get an extra attack? If so, is it one additional attack during the entire not-your-turn period, or would it stack with Combat Reflexes (thereby doubling your AoOs for the round)? How would this work with retroactively applying the -2 penalty to the other attacks for that round? Yeah, I know this is a poorly written feat that has probably had a lot of discussion devoted to it already, so if anyone could put in what the final words were on any of these problems, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
Nephlite 09-19-07, 03:06 PM	First off, I did do a search for help on this topic. I got so many different threads that I decided to start up yet another one (because with this one, I at least get to know whether my topic's being addressed or not). Just had to make sure I made that bit clear. Snap Kick (ToB) grants you an additional attack at your highest BAB whenever you make a melee attack. It gives the examples of a standard attack, a full attack action, or a strike maneuver. So, if I full attack, do I get a single additional attack or is it one add. attack per attack in the full attack action (essentially, double the number of attacks)? I'm thinking no, but I want to be sure. One extra, but remember even if you did get more than one: each one gives -2 penalty to hit. "If" in theory you if you got two: all attacks get -4 hit. So you get worse at hitting if you get more. What if the strike maneuver doesn't use an attack roll (Wyrm's Flame and other goodies from Desert Wind)? It says melee attack. If they is no melee attack roll: no snap kick. Wyrm's Flame is not a melee attack. It is a cone of fire: how do you get melee =cone? Must the extra attack target the same opponent as the initial attack (usually impossible with a reach weapon, but...)? No, you can change targets (you always can in a full attack), but extra attack is a unarmed strike so I don't think you can snap kick with a reach weapon. What about AoOs? Do they even get an extra attack? If so, is it one additional attack during the entire not-your-turn period, or would it stack with Combat Reflexes (thereby doubling your AoOs for the round)? How would this work with retroactively applying the -2 penalty to the other attacks for that round? Yeah, I know this is a poorly written feat that has probably had a lot of discussion devoted to it already, so if anyone could put in what the final words were on any of these problems, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. 1 extra by my reading.
Vaelan 09-19-07, 04:36 PM	Snap Kick is like TWF and every other feature that lets you trade attack roll bonuses for other benefits. You choose whether or not you use it at the beginning of your turn and it lasts until the beginning of your next turn. As for only getting one Snap Kick across several AoOs, I don't see it. There is nothing in the text to even remotely hint at even the smallest suggestion that you only get one kick regardless of the number of attacks of opportunity. One Snap Kick per AoO. Yeah, I know this is a poorly written feat... The rule is quite clear. When you make a melee attack with one or more melee weapons, you get to kick them. That's it. People second-guessing it and making stuff up that isn't in any way reflected by the text isn't an indictment of the rule.
Dheran 09-19-07, 07:18 PM	When you make a melee attack with one or more melee weapons (including a standard attack, full attack, or even a strike maneuver), you can make an additional attack at your highest attack bonus. What's a melee attack? It's one of the following: standard action melee attack full attack including at least one melee attack attack of opportunity (always a melee attack) By the language "with one or more melee weapons" it's clear that they're referring to multiple attacks as a single action. Any one of these valid melee attack actions grants you an (i.e., one) additional attack. Each AoO is a separate attack action, so you can (if you now impose the -2 penalty on both attacks, or you've already imposed it by taking a Snap Kick earlier in the round) also throw in an additional unarmed attack on the AoO.
Aryxbez 09-21-07, 05:04 PM	Remember, combine that with Decisive strike variant in the PH2, and you can do 2 attacks for double damage. This also works with the fighters variant I'm sure as well.