Speak language variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Speak language variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sajek
04-06-07, 01:03 PM Does anyone else think it's really wierd that Speak Language is a skill? I mean, come on. It only takes ONE skill point to know a language, and you can learn three per level? People can take years to fully learn to speak a language. Therefore, I propose that Speak Language be a feat.

Speak Language (General)
You fluently speak a language.
Benefit: You can speak, understand, read, and write (assuming you are literate) in the language of your choice.
Normal: You are restricted to speaking Common, your racial language, and your class language (if applicable).
Zuractai
04-06-07, 01:13 PM Well for starters it takes 2 skill points for almost every class. Plus there is a feat that gives you a new language... every level. We are talking about a world where there are a whole bunch of differant races that you will probaly have to talk to at some point or another. Also concider a Human wizard with an 18int, sure he could learn three languages every level, but then he wouldn't realy be able to learn new spell, concentrate on them when someone hits him, or have a wide level of knowledge. Anyway, I think the speak language skill is fine, most people in the world are 1st level at most, and there are plenty that know more then 1 or even 2 languages.
ClementWillowbreaker
04-06-07, 08:10 PM It's not enough to be a feat, so it has to be a skill. So we are stuck with some racial and Int bonus languages, and everyone except bards don't learn more. Now, if you wanted to introduce level-based bonus languages to replace the skill, that would be an interesting alternative. A bard learns on language every three levels, a fighter every five, and so on.
mythSSK
04-06-07, 08:27 PM To me, two skill points doesn't properly represent the amount of effort that is needed to become utterly fluent in a new language. I'm currently working on a replacement for the Speak Language skill that divides fluency in a language into three tiers, and in which it is possible for different languages to be easier or harder than others to learn.
Illithid_Tentacles
04-06-07, 08:34 PM To me, two skill points doesn't properly represent the amount of effort that is needed to become utterly fluent in a new language. I'm currently working on a replacement for the Speak Language skill that divides fluency in a language into three tiers, and in which it is possible for different languages to be easier or harder than others to learn.

The reason it's not done like this is because (pardon my bluntness) that would a huge ******* pain the ass. True, the way it is in the RAW isn't realistic, but very little in the game is. For example, the average housecat is entirely capable of killing the average 1st level commoner in a single round.
Zuractai
04-06-07, 08:47 PM What are you talking about? If I didn't have a trusty weapon nearbye my cat would kill me if I stopped giving her food and toys. And it would be easy to as a general rule require people to have some access to a way of learning the langues in order to learn them, but anything more then that... And it would be horible. Plus 2 skill points is HUGE for the normal commoner with 10int.
KurenaiYami
04-06-07, 08:48 PM For example, the average housecat is entirely capable of killing the average 1st level commoner in a single round.

Fluffy: "It's over Steve! I have the high ground!"

Man, that thread was amusing.
Sachiel
04-06-07, 09:54 PM Green Ronin's The Black Company has a rather nice language system. It is something I am highly considering implementing.

Basically, when you spend a point in speak language, you get a number of language points equal to your Int bonus plus one. You spend language points to increace your fluency in a language from poor to fair, good, or master. Poor and fair fluencies give you a penalty on skill checks, and mastery gives you a bonus. Learning to read and write costs one language point.

Pretty much, this simulates being able to get a basic understanding of a language, or spending more of an investment to really master it.
There's a rule for dialects as well.
Reversefigure4
04-06-07, 11:08 PM To me, two skill points doesn't properly represent the amount of effort that is needed to become utterly fluent in a new language. I'm currently working on a replacement for the Speak Language skill that divides fluency in a language into three tiers, and in which it is possible for different languages to be easier or harder than others to learn.

Two skill points is a HUGE investment. It's ALL of the skill points per level for the skill-poor classes, and it's even a quarter of the Rogue's skill points per level. For something that is mostly eclipsed by a common 1st level spell, Comprehend Languages, and totally eclipsed by Tongues (yes, these spells have durations, but they work for every language, ever, even the ones you can't take Speak Language skill points in).

A replacement that makes Speak Language harder to learn will only result in less languages being spoken. How's that going to up the fun of the game?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sajek 04-06-07, 01:03 PM	Does anyone else think it's really wierd that Speak Language is a skill? I mean, come on. It only takes ONE skill point to know a language, and you can learn three per level? People can take years to fully learn to speak a language. Therefore, I propose that Speak Language be a feat. Speak Language (General) You fluently speak a language. Benefit: You can speak, understand, read, and write (assuming you are literate) in the language of your choice. Normal: You are restricted to speaking Common, your racial language, and your class language (if applicable).
Zuractai 04-06-07, 01:13 PM	Well for starters it takes 2 skill points for almost every class. Plus there is a feat that gives you a new language... every level. We are talking about a world where there are a whole bunch of differant races that you will probaly have to talk to at some point or another. Also concider a Human wizard with an 18int, sure he could learn three languages every level, but then he wouldn't realy be able to learn new spell, concentrate on them when someone hits him, or have a wide level of knowledge. Anyway, I think the speak language skill is fine, most people in the world are 1st level at most, and there are plenty that know more then 1 or even 2 languages.
ClementWillowbreaker 04-06-07, 08:10 PM	It's not enough to be a feat, so it has to be a skill. So we are stuck with some racial and Int bonus languages, and everyone except bards don't learn more. Now, if you wanted to introduce level-based bonus languages to replace the skill, that would be an interesting alternative. A bard learns on language every three levels, a fighter every five, and so on.
mythSSK 04-06-07, 08:27 PM	To me, two skill points doesn't properly represent the amount of effort that is needed to become utterly fluent in a new language. I'm currently working on a replacement for the Speak Language skill that divides fluency in a language into three tiers, and in which it is possible for different languages to be easier or harder than others to learn.
Illithid_Tentacles 04-06-07, 08:34 PM	To me, two skill points doesn't properly represent the amount of effort that is needed to become utterly fluent in a new language. I'm currently working on a replacement for the Speak Language skill that divides fluency in a language into three tiers, and in which it is possible for different languages to be easier or harder than others to learn. The reason it's not done like this is because (pardon my bluntness) that would a huge ******* pain the ass. True, the way it is in the RAW isn't realistic, but very little in the game is. For example, the average housecat is entirely capable of killing the average 1st level commoner in a single round.
Zuractai 04-06-07, 08:47 PM	What are you talking about? If I didn't have a trusty weapon nearbye my cat would kill me if I stopped giving her food and toys. And it would be easy to as a general rule require people to have some access to a way of learning the langues in order to learn them, but anything more then that... And it would be horible. Plus 2 skill points is HUGE for the normal commoner with 10int.
KurenaiYami 04-06-07, 08:48 PM	For example, the average housecat is entirely capable of killing the average 1st level commoner in a single round. Fluffy: "It's over Steve! I have the high ground!" Man, that thread was amusing.
Sachiel 04-06-07, 09:54 PM	Green Ronin's The Black Company has a rather nice language system. It is something I am highly considering implementing. Basically, when you spend a point in speak language, you get a number of language points equal to your Int bonus plus one. You spend language points to increace your fluency in a language from poor to fair, good, or master. Poor and fair fluencies give you a penalty on skill checks, and mastery gives you a bonus. Learning to read and write costs one language point. Pretty much, this simulates being able to get a basic understanding of a language, or spending more of an investment to really master it. There's a rule for dialects as well.
Reversefigure4 04-06-07, 11:08 PM	To me, two skill points doesn't properly represent the amount of effort that is needed to become utterly fluent in a new language. I'm currently working on a replacement for the Speak Language skill that divides fluency in a language into three tiers, and in which it is possible for different languages to be easier or harder than others to learn. Two skill points is a HUGE investment. It's ALL of the skill points per level for the skill-poor classes, and it's even a quarter of the Rogue's skill points per level. For something that is mostly eclipsed by a common 1st level spell, Comprehend Languages, and totally eclipsed by Tongues (yes, these spells have durations, but they work for every language, ever, even the ones you can't take Speak Language skill points in). A replacement that makes Speak Language harder to learn will only result in less languages being spoken. How's that going to up the fun of the game?