Special Rule and Two Feats for Upcoming Campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Special Rule and Two Feats for Upcoming Campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheNinjaD
06-01-07, 08:31 PM Soon I will be running the Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde campaign (of course with my own personal changes) for some friends. I think that all the background you need to understand this is presented under "new rule." If there are any further questions, ask them. Any input you can offer on these would be greatly appreciated.

New Rule
The obelisks of the Valley of the Obelisks were designed to drain magic from Slaughtergarde and it's armies. At that time, the effect was great and powerful. Over time, however, that effect has faded. Now all spells, invocations, and magic items have a 5% chance of failing. Also, all spells of the evil type (including those cast by magic items) are cast at -1 caster level.

Mage of the Valley of the Obelisks
People that practice magic regularly while living in the Valley of the Obelisks learn to compensate totally for the effects of the obelisks.
Prerequisites: Must have been a magic-using resident of the Valley of the Obelisks for a minimum of three months. (A shorter time period may be acceptable if magic use was unusually heavy and/or frequent. This is at the DM's discretion alone.)
Effect: All spells of the evil type are cast at +1 caster level. Also, all spell failure chances that are not caused by armor (or other physically restricting items) are reduced by 5%.
jaelis
06-01-07, 10:02 PM It would be much better if your feat just allowed you to reduce the penalty imposed by the obelisks by 1. Granting +1 or +2 CL in general is quite powerful, far too much for a simple feat IMO. I guess if you won't let any of the characters leave the valley, it is OK.

I would similarly limit the spell failure negation to the valley effect only.
TheNinjaD
06-01-07, 10:19 PM The idea behind it is that people who use magic in the valley cast spells more powerfully, even if they don't realize it. They have actually learned to cast the spells more powerfully, even outside of the valley.

That said, the campaign is not likely to leave the valley.
Red_Rabbit
06-01-07, 11:28 PM I think it's a bad idea to punish spellcasters for no reason like that requiring them use up one of there feats which they get so few of just so they can cast spells since you don't intend to leave the valley. If you start a lvl 1 character no spellcaster can cast ANY SPELLS, because of the -1 CL and than you put on a spell failure chance still when they wanna cast any spell even if it is only 2 or 3% for taking those feats.

In my opinion it's bad judgement to start spellcasters of any kind off with such a hinderance and than make them live with it for the rest of the campaign.

The amount of power isn't worth it for those feats since it only works in that one area. I'd also like to know what kind of train of thought was going on when you thought of this since you didn't make anything against warriors or rogues just Spellcasters.

If the whole campaign didn't take place in that one area and you might go there and than go away somewhere else where this didn't effect them 24hrs a day 7 days a wk than it wouldn't be so bad.
TheNinjaD
06-02-07, 09:52 AM The feats do work outside of the valley. I don't see where anyone would get the idea that they would not. Also, I already stated above that they do. Before seemingly making an attack on an idea, it's best to read the entire thread.

As far as not being able to cast spells...I don't think I'll play it that way. They'll be allowed to cast any spells that they have but as far as figuring how powerful it is or save DCs, that's where the -1 caster level will come in.
MCage
06-02-07, 01:00 PM Also, spell failure chances that are not caused by armor (or other physically restricting items) are halved.

Maybe reduce the Spell Failure chance by 5% or 10% that way if its 5 it wipes the penalty if its 10 its an actual bonus (casters in leather or the occasional shield)

Then for the following feat maybe 20-25% for chain or scale mail magery
TheNinjaD
06-02-07, 01:09 PM I can see where you are going with that and it is not a bad idea but it is not exactly the intention of what I am doing here.
MCage
06-02-07, 01:48 PM Okay so i understand why the CL is being raised, and i like the reasoning, its kinda like how life will grow anywhere so will magic.

But anywho do the people learning the spells learn them along with a rich military education? Because ive always liked the reasoning that wizards dont use armor because they spend too much time learning spells (and the lack of mobility), that combined with the spells being learned at a higher lvl which one could assume would be harder to learn i dont know if a full reduction is thematically viable.

But it guess it all depends on first how important mages are to the over all plot and what lvl you'll be going to. Maybe a full 40% so they still have access to full plate but splint and half-plate are still going to give them a bit of trouble
TheNinjaD
06-02-07, 01:57 PM There is no military education that goes along with this.

Magic users will not play a very big role in the campaign.
TheNinjaD
06-02-07, 02:03 PM I've updated this to make it a bit more balance, IMHO.
Darth Sephiroth
06-02-07, 02:21 PM It looks nice. One thing you could do is instead of it being as it is, change your valley into a touchstone site. That way if your campaign has your party leaving the area (Some people just want to see the world no matter what you have planned) there are more options rather than just using up a feat to equal everyone else.
TheNinjaD
06-02-07, 02:25 PM I'm not really familiar with what a touchstone site is.
Darth Sephiroth
06-02-07, 02:48 PM They are special areas that require something to activate, you take the Touchstone feat and when you activate one you gain a minor ability that you can easily use and a limited Major one.

They show up in Sandstorm and the Planar Handbook has two connected feats (Planar Touchstone and and Personal Touchstone).

I've consolidated Touchstone and Planar Touchstone into one feat as they do the same things except one is with Planar Sites but both let you take it multiple times to allow extra uses of the abilities.
TheNinjaD
06-02-07, 02:55 PM Interesting. I have one of those books. I may have to look into that idea. Thanks.
Knightblde
06-02-07, 03:58 PM The feats do work outside of the valley. I don't see where anyone would get the idea that they would not. Also, I already stated above that they do. Before seemingly making an attack on an idea, it's best to read the entire thread.

As far as not being able to cast spells...I don't think I'll play it that way. They'll be allowed to cast any spells that they have but as far as figuring how powerful it is or save DCs, that's where the -1 caster level will come in.

Wow, that was a little harsh.

That said, the campaign is not likely to leave the valley.

I think this is what the poster was talking about. If the casters never leave the valley, you are hindering them, while not doing so to the other players. Is there a reason that you are doing so? It is fine if you are, but the poster was just trying to ponit out the negatives of what you are doing.

For instance, if you decided to play in a valley with no metal, you would hurt the melee classes, but not the casters so much.

Of course it is your game, but you asked for opinions, not praise.

Happy Gaming!
MCage
06-02-07, 05:15 PM Mind if i take some of your ideas? I run a huge campaign and id love to absorb this valley in to it, also be a nice way to introduce that feat.
TheNinjaD
06-02-07, 05:30 PM Be my guest. I don't have it in the title of the thread here but the Valley of the Obelisks is the setting for the Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde. What I have posted here is my own creation, though. Someone else using it is even more than I could have ever asked for.
Red_Rabbit
06-02-07, 08:58 PM The feats do work outside of the valley. I don't see where anyone would get the idea that they would not. Also, I already stated above that they do. Before seemingly making an attack on an idea, it's best to read the entire thread.

I'm looking at it but I don't see anywhere it says that it works outside of the valley.

Edit: I see it in your second post, but still if you never leave than it's still not worth it even if you do leave the valley.

That said, the campaign is not likely to leave the valley.

I do see where it says your campaign will only take place in the valley where everyone will be at.

Magic users will not play a very big role in the campaign.

This sounds like your trying to convince your players to not play spellcasters or you will punish them for doing so by making them use there feats up on 1 or 2 useless feats.
TheNinjaD
06-02-07, 09:11 PM I'm considering having the feat be a kind of regional feat given freely to natives but people from elsewhere would need to take it. It's mostly for flavor.

You're correct, the feat does not say that it functions outside of the valley. It is, however, a feat. Why would a feat only function in a certain area unless it's noted?
Red_Rabbit
06-03-07, 01:19 AM You are missing the big problem

Your Campaign is focused in that valley

If you don't have that feat than your spellcasters will get -1 to there caster lvl, except for that 1 game session there might be where they get to leave that valley

If they want to get a normal caster lvl back they have to take that feat.

Your players will be forced to take that feat

Your nonspellcasters get to laugh at casters for taking a wasted feat, because they have no choice.

You might as well say all casters lose there first lvl feat and have to take this awful feat so you can accually enjoy the game.
TheNinjaD
06-03-07, 01:33 AM It's only a penalty on evil spells.

Also, maybe you missed where I said I was considering having it freely given, if it fits a background.
Red_Rabbit
06-03-07, 01:49 AM It's only a penalty on evil spells.

Also, maybe you missed where I said I was considering having it freely given, if it fits a background.

Now I don't have a problem with the fact that it effects evil spells it's directed at one alignment of caster instead of anyone who casts spells. Making the Obelisks defend the land from only evil spellcasters allowing the good guys to defend there lands without worry of hurting themselves in the process.

The second part you were gonna give it to anyone for free if it fits there background is still wrong, because than you will get people to force fit it in there background just so they don't have to pay for a wasted feat that they will have to live with all campaign. I'd just keep the penalty against evil spells and leave it like that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheNinjaD 06-01-07, 08:31 PM	Soon I will be running the Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde campaign (of course with my own personal changes) for some friends. I think that all the background you need to understand this is presented under "new rule." If there are any further questions, ask them. Any input you can offer on these would be greatly appreciated. New Rule The obelisks of the Valley of the Obelisks were designed to drain magic from Slaughtergarde and it's armies. At that time, the effect was great and powerful. Over time, however, that effect has faded. Now all spells, invocations, and magic items have a 5% chance of failing. Also, all spells of the evil type (including those cast by magic items) are cast at -1 caster level. Mage of the Valley of the Obelisks People that practice magic regularly while living in the Valley of the Obelisks learn to compensate totally for the effects of the obelisks. Prerequisites: Must have been a magic-using resident of the Valley of the Obelisks for a minimum of three months. (A shorter time period may be acceptable if magic use was unusually heavy and/or frequent. This is at the DM's discretion alone.) Effect: All spells of the evil type are cast at +1 caster level. Also, all spell failure chances that are not caused by armor (or other physically restricting items) are reduced by 5%.
jaelis 06-01-07, 10:02 PM	It would be much better if your feat just allowed you to reduce the penalty imposed by the obelisks by 1. Granting +1 or +2 CL in general is quite powerful, far too much for a simple feat IMO. I guess if you won't let any of the characters leave the valley, it is OK. I would similarly limit the spell failure negation to the valley effect only.
TheNinjaD 06-01-07, 10:19 PM	The idea behind it is that people who use magic in the valley cast spells more powerfully, even if they don't realize it. They have actually learned to cast the spells more powerfully, even outside of the valley. That said, the campaign is not likely to leave the valley.
Red_Rabbit 06-01-07, 11:28 PM	I think it's a bad idea to punish spellcasters for no reason like that requiring them use up one of there feats which they get so few of just so they can cast spells since you don't intend to leave the valley. If you start a lvl 1 character no spellcaster can cast ANY SPELLS, because of the -1 CL and than you put on a spell failure chance still when they wanna cast any spell even if it is only 2 or 3% for taking those feats. In my opinion it's bad judgement to start spellcasters of any kind off with such a hinderance and than make them live with it for the rest of the campaign. The amount of power isn't worth it for those feats since it only works in that one area. I'd also like to know what kind of train of thought was going on when you thought of this since you didn't make anything against warriors or rogues just Spellcasters. If the whole campaign didn't take place in that one area and you might go there and than go away somewhere else where this didn't effect them 24hrs a day 7 days a wk than it wouldn't be so bad.
TheNinjaD 06-02-07, 09:52 AM	The feats do work outside of the valley. I don't see where anyone would get the idea that they would not. Also, I already stated above that they do. Before seemingly making an attack on an idea, it's best to read the entire thread. As far as not being able to cast spells...I don't think I'll play it that way. They'll be allowed to cast any spells that they have but as far as figuring how powerful it is or save DCs, that's where the -1 caster level will come in.
MCage 06-02-07, 01:00 PM	Also, spell failure chances that are not caused by armor (or other physically restricting items) are halved. Maybe reduce the Spell Failure chance by 5% or 10% that way if its 5 it wipes the penalty if its 10 its an actual bonus (casters in leather or the occasional shield) Then for the following feat maybe 20-25% for chain or scale mail magery
TheNinjaD 06-02-07, 01:09 PM	I can see where you are going with that and it is not a bad idea but it is not exactly the intention of what I am doing here.
MCage 06-02-07, 01:48 PM	Okay so i understand why the CL is being raised, and i like the reasoning, its kinda like how life will grow anywhere so will magic. But anywho do the people learning the spells learn them along with a rich military education? Because ive always liked the reasoning that wizards dont use armor because they spend too much time learning spells (and the lack of mobility), that combined with the spells being learned at a higher lvl which one could assume would be harder to learn i dont know if a full reduction is thematically viable. But it guess it all depends on first how important mages are to the over all plot and what lvl you'll be going to. Maybe a full 40% so they still have access to full plate but splint and half-plate are still going to give them a bit of trouble
TheNinjaD 06-02-07, 01:57 PM	There is no military education that goes along with this. Magic users will not play a very big role in the campaign.
TheNinjaD 06-02-07, 02:03 PM	I've updated this to make it a bit more balance, IMHO.
Darth Sephiroth 06-02-07, 02:21 PM	It looks nice. One thing you could do is instead of it being as it is, change your valley into a touchstone site. That way if your campaign has your party leaving the area (Some people just want to see the world no matter what you have planned) there are more options rather than just using up a feat to equal everyone else.
TheNinjaD 06-02-07, 02:25 PM	I'm not really familiar with what a touchstone site is.
Darth Sephiroth 06-02-07, 02:48 PM	They are special areas that require something to activate, you take the Touchstone feat and when you activate one you gain a minor ability that you can easily use and a limited Major one. They show up in Sandstorm and the Planar Handbook has two connected feats (Planar Touchstone and and Personal Touchstone). I've consolidated Touchstone and Planar Touchstone into one feat as they do the same things except one is with Planar Sites but both let you take it multiple times to allow extra uses of the abilities.
TheNinjaD 06-02-07, 02:55 PM	Interesting. I have one of those books. I may have to look into that idea. Thanks.
Knightblde 06-02-07, 03:58 PM	The feats do work outside of the valley. I don't see where anyone would get the idea that they would not. Also, I already stated above that they do. Before seemingly making an attack on an idea, it's best to read the entire thread. As far as not being able to cast spells...I don't think I'll play it that way. They'll be allowed to cast any spells that they have but as far as figuring how powerful it is or save DCs, that's where the -1 caster level will come in. Wow, that was a little harsh. That said, the campaign is not likely to leave the valley. I think this is what the poster was talking about. If the casters never leave the valley, you are hindering them, while not doing so to the other players. Is there a reason that you are doing so? It is fine if you are, but the poster was just trying to ponit out the negatives of what you are doing. For instance, if you decided to play in a valley with no metal, you would hurt the melee classes, but not the casters so much. Of course it is your game, but you asked for opinions, not praise. Happy Gaming!
MCage 06-02-07, 05:15 PM	Mind if i take some of your ideas? I run a huge campaign and id love to absorb this valley in to it, also be a nice way to introduce that feat.
TheNinjaD 06-02-07, 05:30 PM	Be my guest. I don't have it in the title of the thread here but the Valley of the Obelisks is the setting for the Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde. What I have posted here is my own creation, though. Someone else using it is even more than I could have ever asked for.
Red_Rabbit 06-02-07, 08:58 PM	The feats do work outside of the valley. I don't see where anyone would get the idea that they would not. Also, I already stated above that they do. Before seemingly making an attack on an idea, it's best to read the entire thread. I'm looking at it but I don't see anywhere it says that it works outside of the valley. Edit: I see it in your second post, but still if you never leave than it's still not worth it even if you do leave the valley. That said, the campaign is not likely to leave the valley. I do see where it says your campaign will only take place in the valley where everyone will be at. Magic users will not play a very big role in the campaign. This sounds like your trying to convince your players to not play spellcasters or you will punish them for doing so by making them use there feats up on 1 or 2 useless feats.
TheNinjaD 06-02-07, 09:11 PM	I'm considering having the feat be a kind of regional feat given freely to natives but people from elsewhere would need to take it. It's mostly for flavor. You're correct, the feat does not say that it functions outside of the valley. It is, however, a feat. Why would a feat only function in a certain area unless it's noted?
Red_Rabbit 06-03-07, 01:19 AM	You are missing the big problem Your Campaign is focused in that valley If you don't have that feat than your spellcasters will get -1 to there caster lvl, except for that 1 game session there might be where they get to leave that valley If they want to get a normal caster lvl back they have to take that feat. Your players will be forced to take that feat Your nonspellcasters get to laugh at casters for taking a wasted feat, because they have no choice. You might as well say all casters lose there first lvl feat and have to take this awful feat so you can accually enjoy the game.
TheNinjaD 06-03-07, 01:33 AM	It's only a penalty on evil spells. Also, maybe you missed where I said I was considering having it freely given, if it fits a background.
Red_Rabbit 06-03-07, 01:49 AM	It's only a penalty on evil spells. Also, maybe you missed where I said I was considering having it freely given, if it fits a background. Now I don't have a problem with the fact that it effects evil spells it's directed at one alignment of caster instead of anyone who casts spells. Making the Obelisks defend the land from only evil spellcasters allowing the good guys to defend there lands without worry of hurting themselves in the process. The second part you were gonna give it to anyone for free if it fits there background is still wrong, because than you will get people to force fit it in there background just so they don't have to pay for a wasted feat that they will have to live with all campaign. I'd just keep the penalty against evil spells and leave it like that.