Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Irakesh 06-15-07, 10:56 PM	I was wondering... If a wizard takes that option, can he spontaneously cast any spell from the divination school ? That would be too much powerfull. So I guess he must have that "divination spell" in his spellbook ... Can somebody confirm ? :confused:
Tempest Stormwind 06-15-07, 10:58 PM	As written, any divination spell, ever. Even divine ones. Overpowered broken **** in a book full of divine magic? What are the chances?
Mastel 06-15-07, 11:13 PM	Sorry but i never saw the word ever . Spotaneous Divination: you can cast any spell of the divination school by sacrificing ... I take it that the way wizard get or cast his spells as not change & they do not get new spell. The complete book series are certainly not complete. They never change the rules of the PHB unless it is clairly specify. If you don't already know, i got a very bad english.
Tempest Stormwind 06-16-07, 01:09 AM	Sorry but i never saw the word ever . Spotaneous Divination: you can cast any spell of the divination school by sacrificing ... I take it that the way wizard get or cast his spells as not change & they do not get new spell. The complete book series are certainly not complete. They never change the rules of the PHB unless it is clairly specify. If you don't already know, i got a very bad english. "You can cast any spell of the divination school..." Is Commune (Cleric spell, but not a wizard spell) in the Divination school? Why, yes, it is. Therefore, I can cast Commune. It doesn't say Sorcerer/Wizard divination spells. It says spells of the divination school. This DOES override the PHB, because you're using that variant (and the PHB says you gain a bonus feat at those levels, but you don't with this variant, therefore the variant takes precedent if you're using it or it would be worthless). The fact that it lets you do this suggests that either: 1) WotC doesn't bother editing things or 2) WotC deliberately pumps up the power on all things associated with divine magic. 2 is already known. 1 is likely, especially where divine magic is involved (remember Divine Metamagic? It's been nearly three years and we STILL haven't gotten that necessary "can't cast a spell you couldn't normally cast" line that would solve nearly all of its problems!)
runestar 06-16-07, 01:18 AM	Overpowered broken **** in a book full of divine magic? What are the chances? Bah, as unlikely as allowing a 1st lv barb to access pounce...;) No, wait...:P
risner 06-16-07, 01:21 AM	I was wondering... If a wizard takes that option, can he spontaneously cast any spell from the divination school ? He can only cast spells on his class list, of course. Any other interpretation without the required "from any class list" in the Spontaneous Divination ability would be going against core rules in the Wizard class writeup in the PHB. In other words, the core rules of "a wizard casts spells from the Wizard class list" would prohibit interpretations such as yours.
cwslyclgh 06-16-07, 01:23 AM	Bah, as unlikely as allowing a 1st lv barb to access pounce...;) No, wait...:P uhmmm... pounce is nearly useless to a 1st level character isn't it? And I agree with Risner about the subject at hand... the other way of thinking lead to all of those stupid "my sorcerer can take heal with the Extra Spell feat from complete arcane" arguments.
runestar 06-16-07, 01:30 AM	uhmmm... pounce is nearly useless to a 1st level character isn't it? But invaluable to a monster looking for a choice 1-lv dip for the elite stat array. It does not have to be your 1st class lv either. A lv15 fighter could just as readily splash 1 lv of barb just for pounce (and rage, for icing on the cake). Useless or no, the ease with which pounce can be access is rather shocking, IMO, even if there is that rp requirement (must worship lions) to work around. Previously, you can go really go out of your way to achieve this, like 4 lvs of psy-warrior, or take 1 lv in the dervish prc. I dunno - maybe this is the sort of thing which looks game breaking at 1st glance, but actually turns out to be underpowered in actual gameplay. But then, your barb can now wear heavy armour without losses. Warforged barb with adamantine body anyone?:P
AllisterH 06-16-07, 08:35 AM	Pounce has always been something of the holy grail for melee characters. Personally, I think this makes more sense as a level 6 ability since at char level 6, a barbarian can actually USE pounce. Not only would it reward the single class barbarian but also prevent 1-level dipping. As for the lack of errata, *shrug*, there is no money on the line for WOTC. I mean, see how quickly WOTC releases an errata/baned/restricted list for M:TG
runestar 06-16-07, 09:50 AM	Well, it is not impossible for a 1st lv barb to have multiple attacks (such as TWFing, or if he somehow possessed multiple natural weapons).:)
risner 06-16-07, 12:46 PM	As for the lack of errata, *shrug*, there is no money on the line for WOTC. I mean, see how quickly WOTC releases an errata/baned/restricted list for M:TG Just so we know, am I to take it that they very quickly release this info for M:TG? Or does it take years to release as well?
AllisterH 06-17-07, 10:14 AM	Just so we know, am I to take it that they very quickly release this info for M:TG? Or does it take years to release as well? Every few months (quarterly IIRC), WOTC releases a restricted/banned list of cards for the various formats (Vintage = all the cards, Legacy = Vintage - Restricted Vards, Extended = The 5 or 6 previous big sets, Standard = The last 2 years of cards, and yes, this isn't accurate but work with me M:TG afficiandos :D ). Basically, these cards were found to be too good, sometimes because of the strength of the card itself or sometimes how it interacts with other cards. Ex: Flash was a card that for years was a 10 cent card. Pretty much you'd see it only in among friends playing their "fun" decks. Well, when WOTC recently came out with a new set, the update to Oracle concerning the card caused some unforseen power level issues in the Legacy tournament environment. Well, the newest B/R list has just placed Flash on the banned list. From the start of the problem to its banning, I'd say it has only been 3 months,5 at the most. Since there is money on the line at the games, WOTC will without fail provide an updated banned list based on tournament and customer feedback. Then there's also Oracle which has all of the errata FOR every card in one easy to find manner. Oracle itself gets updated EVERY time a new set comes out, which is roughly once every 4 months and yes, this does mean that if you don't have internet connection, what is printed on a card can be vastly different than how it actually works. It may not seem like it but there are a lot of TIMING/RESOLUTION manipulation issues in M:TG. Compared to the whole polymorph situation,it is obvious that since there is no money for having an up to date errata/banned list, WOTC doesn't feel it is that important to maintain one.
Tempest Stormwind 06-17-07, 12:47 PM	Part of that is because WotC has made MtG into a competitive tournament game, while D&D is primarily a recreational one first and foremost. The banned/restricted list has no bearing on "for fun" games. The closest D&D has to a tournament would be the RPGA games (which DO have "banned/restricted lists"). I despise these personally, but the various games under the RPGA (Living Greyhawk's the big, long-standing one) all have tight restrictions on what is and isn't allowed. The DMs have to register and cannot houserule, players from particular geographical areas have to have particular regional backgrounds, games are ridiculously monitored in terms of XP and gear rewards, and in most the levels cap out at 15 before forced retirement. Certain spells, classes, and gear are banned -- and you don't have free access to all of the non-banned things either (you need to "unlock" them, essentially similar to buying a Magic card).