Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sorath 01-05-08, 05:57 PM	Can you spot a trap with a spot check without actively searching for one? Or at least be alerted to potential danger? For instance, if a rogue is walking through a dungeon, does he have to search for traps every 5 feet, or will a successful spot check (by the DM in secret more than likely) alert the rogue that there is a trap in his vicinity. If so, is the DC the same as the search DC or is it higher? Is there any support from the rules on any situation like this? Thanks in advance.
StevenO 01-05-08, 07:16 PM	I don't know if there is RAW support for it but I'd allow a Spot check using the Search DC +10. Maybe only +5 if I'm feeling REALLY nice but there is no way I'll let you Spot a trap as a free action as easily as I'd let you find one when deliberately searching for something. I believe RAW is that you must actively search to find traps. As a DM you may want to drop hints at areas likely to contain traps to prompts searching which could involve a Spot check to identify the area. As mentioned before I would consider allowing a Spot check vs. the DC +10 to see a potential trap at the last second as that should be high enough it doesn't get made too often.
kingrthr3 01-05-08, 07:24 PM	A dwarf can make an automatic Search check when coming within 5 feet of unusual stonework, including stonework traps. A Spot check normally won't find a trap at all, though, unless the DM rules otherwise for a particular situation. You can move 5' a round while actively searching for traps - take a full-round action to search the ground in front of you (taking 10, probably) and then 5' step into it.
Dheran 01-05-08, 10:40 PM	Since Search is generally limited to 10' range I can understand your desire. A trap with a mechanical trigger has to have something physically visible to activate, so I'd use Spot with the same DC as for Search for those traps. By the rules, there's nothing to see for a magic trap, so you'll have to stick with the regular trapfinding class ability and Search skill requirements.
Sorath 01-06-08, 12:15 AM	Thanks for all of the help. I was hoping that there would be something to support this, because searching every 5 feet really slows everything down horribly. But we are playing a high level campaign (16th level atm) and those level of traps can be lethal, so you hate to not search and then step right on one.
StevenO 01-06-08, 04:10 PM	Is the search slowing thing down too much "in character" or "as played?" If it is taking too much game time then stop rolling a Search check every 5 feet and just take 10 on everything. If it takes too long "in character" then you may have problems but if your adventure is has that fast of pace then you probably shouldn't be throwing too many traps at the PCs.
Kouk 01-07-08, 06:40 PM	If you declare that you are always "Taking 10" unless you specify otherwise, you (and your party) can move at a speed of 50ft a minute. Staggeringly slow in the game world, true -- but much faster in the real world. When you come to a "hot spot" area, where you expect a trap, such as an evil-looking doorway or chest, you can choose to roll or take 20. Downside is that when taking 10, all the DC has to be is 1 over your take 10 result and you will never see it passively. In general you would just be Searching in a fairly straight line rather than the whole room this way, with the party following you exactly. Another option that may work well if your DM is receptive (have you brought up your concerns? He may have noticed it as well) is to allow a single Search check per room when there is no combat rather than multiple checks for every 5ft square. Or, you could assume that you are always Searching and the DM can roll for you in secret when there is a trap to be found. In 4th edition, trapfinding will be automatically passive, as if you were taking 10. You can see that here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080104a if you are logged in.