Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nezkrul 05-11-07, 04:09 AM	I'd like to see some opinions on this. Can I use Spring Attack feat whilst riding a Carpet of Flying? If so, the feat does not assume I am able to move for free, would I still be able to make a full attack? (since controlling an activated carpet of flying is a free action)
penchant 05-11-07, 09:28 AM	No, but you can take the Flyby Attack feat that does the same thing. It just only applies when you get a fly speed. Its also cheaper than spring attack.
Nezkrul 05-11-07, 10:24 AM	Spring Attack [General] Prerequisites- Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4. Benefit- When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor. You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack. I would say that I could so long as I don't move the carpet of flying farther than my own speed (upto the carpet's normal maximum speed) because the feat does not call for me to take a move action, but rather that I move in some fashion. Anyone else with their 2cp?
foxtail 05-11-07, 12:34 PM	No, but you can take the Flyby Attack feat that does the same thing. It just only applies when you get a fly speed. Its also cheaper than spring attack. It's true that it's cheaper, but I don't think there's anything in the Spring Attack description that says it wouldn't work while in flight.
penchant 05-11-07, 03:14 PM	It's true that it's cheaper, but I don't think there's anything in the Spring Attack description that says it wouldn't work while in flight. Then why does Flyby Attack exist if the other feat already applies? Both are Core rules.
tarkin 05-11-07, 03:19 PM	Flyby attack lets you do ANY standard action: You can fly, cast a spell, fly. Or fly, breathe fire, fly. Very helpfull for a many flying creatures, such as dragons. Spring Attack restricts you to a single melee attack inside the move. ----- Also Flyby attack does not protect you against AoO's. (There is an Improved version that does that). They are very different feats.
Optimator 05-11-07, 08:57 PM	My DM always treated a magic carpet like a mount. Good for archers and wizards, but no spring attacking.
metatheurgist 05-12-07, 02:55 AM	If it's a mount then it would be covered by Ride-By-Attack. :D
Nezkrul 05-12-07, 06:08 AM	but it's not a mount. it does not require Ride skill checks to control during combat, and does not take actions apart from free actions to make it do what you want. if my dm ruled to work them as a mount, I'd much rather go and buy myself a trained Warbeast Gryphon as a mount; and save about 15000 gold in the process (over the 5x10 carpet) please don't bark at my math, it's a guesstimate
jaelis 05-12-07, 08:35 AM	Logically, you either treat it as a mount or as a flight ability. If it's a mount, you can use ride-by-attack and the like, if it's a flight ability you could use spring attack. Given the item text This rug is able to fly through the air as if affected by an overland flight spell of unlimited duration. The size, carrying capacity, and speed of the different carpets of flying are shown on the table below. I would rule it a mount: the rug can fly, not the owner, and it has a carrying capacity. But you could go either way. It's more convenient than a real mount in several ways: you can't attack it normally, it doesn't need upkeep, and you can roll it up and stow it in your bag of holding when it's not needed.
Nezkrul 05-12-07, 09:59 AM	Logically, you either treat it as a mount or as a flight ability. If it's a mount, you can use ride-by-attack and the like, if it's a flight ability you could use spring attack. Given the item text I would rule it a mount: the rug can fly, not the owner, and it has a carrying capacity. But you could go either way. It's more convenient than a real mount in several ways: you can't attack it normally, it doesn't need upkeep, and you can roll it up and stow it in your bag of holding when it's not needed. Right but it's not a mount; A scout X riding one gets his skirmish ability applied to all of his attacks if he makes his carpet move him more than 10' from where he started his turn, as a free action.
Zarith 05-12-07, 11:56 AM	Since Spring Attack is based on your ability to move quickly and efficiently around an enemy (built on the feats Dodge and Mobility) and not the carpets (which only has average maneuverability) as a DM I would not allow it. I would say Fly By or Ride By Attack is more along the lines of what is happening and I would lean toward Ride By Attack which does not require much riding skill (Ride 1 rank and Mounted Combat) and the carpet as a fighting platform is probably similar to a horse.
Throg 05-12-07, 02:03 PM	Right but it's not a mount; A scout X riding one gets his skirmish ability applied to all of his attacks if he makes his carpet move him more than 10' from where he started his turn, as a free action. Actually, I believe that skirmish has been ruled somewhere that it doesn't work while mounted
jaelis 05-12-07, 02:05 PM	Right but it's not a mount; A scout X riding one gets his skirmish ability applied to all of his attacks if he makes his carpet move him more than 10' from where he started his turn, as a free action. I'd make you pick one or the other. Either it acts like a mount, with all the advantages and drawbacks of that (full attacks and RBA, but no spring attack or skirmish), or it acts like the fly spell, with the advantages and drawbacks of that (spring attack and skirmish, but no full attacks). I wouldn't let you get away with taking the best of both. But the rules on it are pretty lean, so it's really mostly up to the DM. Like I said, I'd rule it as a mount.