Spring Attack/20D6 Skirmish Damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spring Attack/20D6 Skirmish Damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
oreththecentaur
09-09-07, 10:59 PM Hey Guys, I posted this question in Equipment and Combat, but no one answered yet, wondering if you could help a little

I'm planning my next few levels and i'm wondering what direction to go.

I'm playing a human scout 8/fighter 2/ranger 1

I'm skirmishing with (+5D6, +4 AC, thanks to Improved skirmish and swift hunter)

I spring attack almost every round dealing lots of damage.
But of course, i want to deal more

I'm thinking about taking the Bounding Assault feat which would let me have an additional attack when i spring attack.

Does this work with the additional attack gain while activating Skirmisher boots. (for 3 attacks)

What about the additional attack provided by the Slashing Fury feat in PH2.

If i'm reading this right thats 3 attacks a round (activating the boots allows me four attack a round 2/day.)

I use a +2 Sweeping guisarme with improved trip, so could i spring in, trip my opponent, attack that prone opponent with the attack improved trip gives, dealing skirmish damage again,

then have my second attack (from Bounding Assault )at a -5 penalty, dealing skirmish damage again.

Then activate the boots for another attack at my full base attack, dealing skirmish damage yet again.

Thats 6D4+24+15D6 damage a round.

Or with the Slashing Flurry feat, i can take a -5 penalty on my first attack, to get an additional attack with a -10 penalty whenever i use a standard action to attack.

Thats 8D4+32+20D6 damage.

Is this right?
Please tell me this is right!!!

Please.............
BruceLeeroy
09-09-07, 11:12 PM Sounds about right, provided that the middle number is your strength modifier, weapon enhancement, etc.
oreththecentaur
09-09-07, 11:32 PM Awesome.
You're pretty sure right?

Thanks man!
dman11235
09-10-07, 01:28 AM Then make sure to take rapid blitz for another attack (PHBII, coupled with bounding assault.)
StruckingFuggle
09-10-07, 01:49 AM I'm thinking about taking the Bounding Assault feat which would let me have an additional attack when i spring attack.

Does this work with the additional attack gain while activating Skirmisher boots. (for 3 attacks)

What about the additional attack provided by the Slashing Fury feat in PH2.

No and no. Spring Attack lets you make one special attack as part of a full-round action, and Bounding Assault then raises it to two special attacks as a part of a full-round action. It doesn't matter how many attacks you have, from however many sources, either you mentioned or TWF or a Speed weapon or being buffed with Haste ... if it's "an additional attack", you can't make it as a part of a spring attack.
war_thog
09-10-07, 01:59 AM Pounce + 2wep fight + skirmish also = Big damage.
Barb 1 Ranger 6 Scout 1 gives a lvl 8 char who can skirmish as a lvl 7 scout.
4 attacks each round *more if you do the boots thing or have haste or whatever* at skirmish when you charge
Snow tiger berserker feat from UE in faerun - need light weps but you want them for the atk bonus anyway.

More damage and more chance to hit than your guy *no trip though* at a lower level.

18 str char with +1 weps
+7 from BaB, + 6 atk (rage), + 1 from ench, -2 2 wep, +2 charge
14/14/9/9 each charge.
Dealing,
Call it short swords.
1d6+6(3 for off hand)+1+4d6 damage every hit.
4 hits....
4d6+22+16d6
At level 8 with a very pretty to hit bonus
activate your boots for an extra +14. 1d6+6+1+4d6 attack for
5d6+29+20d6.
Thats with 4k worth of items.

Your man is cool to though, just costs more feats.
This 1 costs 2 (pounce feat + improved skirmish) + ranger stuff.
Trip is your friend though :)
dman11235
09-10-07, 02:20 AM You need three levels of scout for swift hunter.
Johnny_Angel
09-10-07, 03:50 AM No and no. Spring Attack lets you make one special attack as part of a full-round action, and Bounding Assault then raises it to two special attacks as a part of a full-round action. It doesn't matter how many attacks you have, from however many sources, either you mentioned or TWF or a Speed weapon or being buffed with Haste ... if it's "an additional attack", you can't make it as a part of a spring attack.

Really? I thought spring attack just allowed you to move, attack, and then move again.

For example, if I have 30 feet of movement, I could move 10 ft, attack, and then move the 20 feet that I have left. That's how I always interpreted Spring Attack, but perhaps I read it wrong.

As far as I can tell, as long as all of those extra attacks only use a standard action, I don't see why you can't attack more than once. The only reason a spring attack would be a full round action is because you're both moving and attack...which takes up your move action and your standard action...a full round action.
war_thog
09-10-07, 07:10 AM really? I thoguht it was 1.
Well take 3 and get TWF slightly later.
Then the character would be the same level as the one he posted and the skirmish would be more and so on.

BaB would be the same and we get a couple of cool scout abilities.
All good :)
war_thog
09-10-07, 07:11 AM On a side note its not easy to get the 20ft minimum movement you need to beenfit from improved skirmish when you are spring attacking.
oreththecentaur
09-10-07, 08:38 AM No and no. Spring Attack lets you make one special attack as part of a full-round action,

The way you describe this, you seem to think spring attack i a special full round action like a charge or so. I'm almost 100% sure you are mistaken on this, to quote to feat description in the PHB

"When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you
can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed."

Spring attack is a move action, followed by a standard action followed by another extra move action. Provided of course "that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed" and the the standard action is the attack option. No where in the feat description does it suggest that Spring Attack is a new action.

In conclusion, I'd argue that you do indeed use a stanard attack when you use the spring attack feat.

Anyone??

On a side note its not easy to get the 20ft minimum movement you need to beenfit from improved skirmish when you are spring attacking.

Base speed 40ft, being a level 8 scout. Spring in and out 20ft each time. Works for me ;0
Nom
09-10-07, 08:51 AM As it stands, you can't qualify for Slashing Flurry. It requires Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation (Ftr 4), Melee Weapon Mastery and BAB +14. You don't even qualify for Bounding Assault (BAB +12).

But let's ignore that.

Bounding Assault will give a second attack at -5. It uses the "attack" standard action. I can't tell you whether skirmish damage applies to this since I don't have access to the Scout rules.

Slashing Flurry requires "a standard action to attack". This could be a special standard action, but sounds like they mean any standard action that grants an attack. However, the rules specifically grant "a second attack", not just "an additional attack". A plain reading would thus be that you can either get a second attack from Bounding Assault (with a +0/-5 penalty to hit) or from Slashing Flurry (with a -5/-10 penalty to hit), but not both.
Dheran
09-10-07, 11:25 AM I'm playing a human scout 8/fighter 2/ranger 1

I'm skirmishing with (+5D6, +4 AC, thanks to Improved skirmish and swift hunter)

I'm thinking about taking the Bounding Assault feat which would let me have an additional attack when i spring attack. That'll be a while. Bounding Assault requires BAB +12 or better, and you're at +9. To use this feat you'll also need a second designated foe.

Does this work with the additional attack gain while activating Skirmisher boots. (for 3 attacks) Yes, it does, as long as you meet the skirmish requirements.

What about the additional attack provided by the Slashing Fury feat in PH2. Maybe. There are three difficulties here.
Slashing Fury requires you use a standard action to attack. But Spring Attack specifies an "attack action", which is undefined. You'll need to check with your DM about what types of attacks they treat as "attack actions".
The prerequisites for Slashing Fury are very steep, and your character isn't close to meeting them.
Slashing Fury states:When you use a standard action to attack with any slashing weapon, you can choose to make a second attack with that weapon. Using this feat will require that you've only made a single standard action attack first, so it won't work with Bounding Assault or Rapid Blitz.

If i'm reading this right thats 3 attacks a round (activating the boots allows me four attack a round 2/day.) No, it's either Bounding Assault or Slashing Fury, not both. So it's 2 attacks a round, or 3 with your Skirmisher Boots 2x/day.

I use a +2 Sweeping guisarme with improved trip, so could i spring in, trip my opponent, attack that prone opponent with the attack improved trip gives, dealing skirmish damage again, then have my second attack (from Bounding Assault )at a -5 penalty, dealing skirmish damage again. This all works, if you get to where you can afford all the feat prerequisites. Note that it's not skirmish damage "again"; the attack after the trip is the first chance to deal skirmish damage.
Then activate the boots for another attack at my full base attack, dealing skirmish damage yet again. Yes.
Thats 6D4+24+15D6 damage a round.

Or with the Slashing Flurry feat, i can take a -5 penalty on my first attack, to get an additional attack with a -10 penalty whenever i use a standard action to attack.
No. As I pointed out previously, you can't stack Bounding Assault and Slashing Flurry.

Thats 8D4+32+20D6 damage.

Is this right? No.
kalstrand
09-10-07, 06:39 PM Slashing Fury requires you use a standard action to attack. But Spring Attack specifies an "attack action", which is undefined. You'll need to check with your DM about what types of attacks they treat as "attack actions".

Actually the attack action is defined. It is the first action listed in the Standard action section of the PHB found on page 139. The attack action lets you make 1 attack.

Spring Attack requires the attack action so you can't combine it with Slashing Flurry because Slashing Flurry requires its own standard action.

You can combine it with Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz because they were designed to work with Spring Attack.
war_thog
09-10-07, 07:39 PM Base speed 40ft, being a level 8 scout. Spring in and out 20ft each time. Works for me ;0

Yes thats true.
But if anyone moves you're buggered. Or if you are further/closer away you're buggered.
Hard to be exact like that.

Hard to do with charge too mind, but charges greater range is a good start point.
Dheran
09-10-07, 11:59 PM Actually the attack action is defined. It is the first action listed in the Standard action section of the PHB found on page 139. The attack action lets you make 1 attack. Not quite. There are standard actions labeled "attack", but the only definition that uses the exact term "attack action" is for "full attack action". So the standard action "attack" is an "attack action", but it isn't the only one that could apply.
Spring Attack requires the attack action so you can't combine it with Slashing Flurry because Slashing Flurry requires its own standard action. This isn't the case at all. Here's what Slashing Flurry says:When you use a standard action to attack with any slashing weapon, you can choose to make a second attack with that weapon. Note that this is merely dependent on using a standard action to attack. It in no way requires that this standard action be separate, or ineligible for benefitting from other feats. Contrast this with the language for the Manyshot feat: As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet. See the difference? Manyshot requires its own standard action. Slashing Flurry does not.
kalstrand
09-11-07, 12:40 AM I will concede the point on Slashing Flurry.

Page 139 of the PHB about half way down the page in blue is a section titled Standard Actions. The first standard action listed is titled Attack.

The attack action is clearly a specific standard action. If you read that section it goes on about different types of attacks through p139 onto p140 about half way down the left hand column where it comes to the 2nd standard action which is Cast a Spell.
Merestil Haye
09-11-07, 01:37 AM Not quite. There are standard actions labeled "attack", but the only definition that uses the exact term "attack action" is for "full attack action". So the standard action "attack" is an "attack action", but it isn't the only one that could apply.This is not right.

The attack action is defined. It is a standard action that allows the creature to attack once. It is broken down into three subclasses, but the name of each is the attack action.

The full attack action is not a subclass of attack action but a completely different action with its own name.
Merestil Haye
09-11-07, 01:42 AM Spring attack is a move action, followed by a standard action followed by another extra move action. Provided of course "that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed" and the the standard action is the attack option. No where in the feat description does it suggest that Spring Attack is a new action.Neither does it state that Spring Attack gives you an extra move action in the round. If it did it would say so. You take one move action.

The normal rules require that you take your other action in the round before or after your move action. Spring Attack lets you take your standard action at some point during your move that is not the start or finish of your movement.
dman11235
09-11-07, 02:00 AM Spring Attack:
When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can�t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.

Not trying to get in, just bringing the feat.
war_thog
09-11-07, 08:06 AM Right on. So I guess thats a no to many peoples conceptions of what this does and does not do.

No slahing flurry and rapid blitz is too high level anyway.
elonin
09-12-07, 07:55 PM does dual strike work with spring attack?
dman11235
09-12-07, 08:33 PM What's the wording? (where from?)
elonin
09-12-07, 08:51 PM Can't find my copy of Complete adventurer but found this in crystal keep.

"As a Standard Action, you can make a melee attack with your primary and off-hand weapon. Both attacks
use the same attack roll and the worse of the two weapon�s attack modifier. If you are using a one-handed
or light weapon in your off-hand, you take a �4 penalty; otherwise the penalty is �10.
Each weapon deals its damage normally and reduction/resistance is applied separately. Precision damage
(such as sneak attack) is only applied once. A critical hit only deals critical damage from the primary."
dman11235
09-12-07, 09:27 PM Then no, spring attack is a full round action.
Nom
09-12-07, 10:22 PM Then no, spring attack is a full round action.Right answer, wrong reason.

Spring Attack is not a full round action. From your own quote above: "When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack". The words "full round action" or "full attack" are conspicuously absent; the only action described is the "attack action", which is a type of standard action.

The reason you can't use "dual strike" is that it is a standard action that is not the attack action, and Spring Attack requires the attack action. Note the very important difference between "an action that grants an attack" and "the attack action". The attack action is a (standard) action that grants an attack, but there are others. This is same reason as you can't use Manyshot with Shot on the Run: Shot on the Run requires the attack action (which Manyshot is not), not merely a standard action that grants an attack (which Manyshot is).
dman11235
09-12-07, 10:31 PM True, my bad.
TywinLannister
09-20-07, 08:44 AM I'm the DM for this character!!!

Nightmare...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
oreththecentaur 09-09-07, 10:59 PM	Hey Guys, I posted this question in Equipment and Combat, but no one answered yet, wondering if you could help a little I'm planning my next few levels and i'm wondering what direction to go. I'm playing a human scout 8/fighter 2/ranger 1 I'm skirmishing with (+5D6, +4 AC, thanks to Improved skirmish and swift hunter) I spring attack almost every round dealing lots of damage. But of course, i want to deal more I'm thinking about taking the Bounding Assault feat which would let me have an additional attack when i spring attack. Does this work with the additional attack gain while activating Skirmisher boots. (for 3 attacks) What about the additional attack provided by the Slashing Fury feat in PH2. If i'm reading this right thats 3 attacks a round (activating the boots allows me four attack a round 2/day.) I use a +2 Sweeping guisarme with improved trip, so could i spring in, trip my opponent, attack that prone opponent with the attack improved trip gives, dealing skirmish damage again, then have my second attack (from Bounding Assault )at a -5 penalty, dealing skirmish damage again. Then activate the boots for another attack at my full base attack, dealing skirmish damage yet again. Thats 6D4+24+15D6 damage a round. Or with the Slashing Flurry feat, i can take a -5 penalty on my first attack, to get an additional attack with a -10 penalty whenever i use a standard action to attack. Thats 8D4+32+20D6 damage. Is this right? Please tell me this is right!!! Please.............
BruceLeeroy 09-09-07, 11:12 PM	Sounds about right, provided that the middle number is your strength modifier, weapon enhancement, etc.
oreththecentaur 09-09-07, 11:32 PM	Awesome. You're pretty sure right? Thanks man!
dman11235 09-10-07, 01:28 AM	Then make sure to take rapid blitz for another attack (PHBII, coupled with bounding assault.)
StruckingFuggle 09-10-07, 01:49 AM	I'm thinking about taking the Bounding Assault feat which would let me have an additional attack when i spring attack. Does this work with the additional attack gain while activating Skirmisher boots. (for 3 attacks) What about the additional attack provided by the Slashing Fury feat in PH2. No and no. Spring Attack lets you make one special attack as part of a full-round action, and Bounding Assault then raises it to two special attacks as a part of a full-round action. It doesn't matter how many attacks you have, from however many sources, either you mentioned or TWF or a Speed weapon or being buffed with Haste ... if it's "an additional attack", you can't make it as a part of a spring attack.
war_thog 09-10-07, 01:59 AM	Pounce + 2wep fight + skirmish also = Big damage. Barb 1 Ranger 6 Scout 1 gives a lvl 8 char who can skirmish as a lvl 7 scout. 4 attacks each round more if you do the boots thing or have haste or whatever at skirmish when you charge Snow tiger berserker feat from UE in faerun - need light weps but you want them for the atk bonus anyway. More damage and more chance to hit than your guy no trip though at a lower level. 18 str char with +1 weps +7 from BaB, + 6 atk (rage), + 1 from ench, -2 2 wep, +2 charge 14/14/9/9 each charge. Dealing, Call it short swords. 1d6+6(3 for off hand)+1+4d6 damage every hit. 4 hits.... 4d6+22+16d6 At level 8 with a very pretty to hit bonus activate your boots for an extra +14. 1d6+6+1+4d6 attack for 5d6+29+20d6. Thats with 4k worth of items. Your man is cool to though, just costs more feats. This 1 costs 2 (pounce feat + improved skirmish) + ranger stuff. Trip is your friend though :)
dman11235 09-10-07, 02:20 AM	You need three levels of scout for swift hunter.
Johnny_Angel 09-10-07, 03:50 AM	No and no. Spring Attack lets you make one special attack as part of a full-round action, and Bounding Assault then raises it to two special attacks as a part of a full-round action. It doesn't matter how many attacks you have, from however many sources, either you mentioned or TWF or a Speed weapon or being buffed with Haste ... if it's "an additional attack", you can't make it as a part of a spring attack. Really? I thought spring attack just allowed you to move, attack, and then move again. For example, if I have 30 feet of movement, I could move 10 ft, attack, and then move the 20 feet that I have left. That's how I always interpreted Spring Attack, but perhaps I read it wrong. As far as I can tell, as long as all of those extra attacks only use a standard action, I don't see why you can't attack more than once. The only reason a spring attack would be a full round action is because you're both moving and attack...which takes up your move action and your standard action...a full round action.
war_thog 09-10-07, 07:10 AM	really? I thoguht it was 1. Well take 3 and get TWF slightly later. Then the character would be the same level as the one he posted and the skirmish would be more and so on. BaB would be the same and we get a couple of cool scout abilities. All good :)
war_thog 09-10-07, 07:11 AM	On a side note its not easy to get the 20ft minimum movement you need to beenfit from improved skirmish when you are spring attacking.
oreththecentaur 09-10-07, 08:38 AM	No and no. Spring Attack lets you make one special attack as part of a full-round action, The way you describe this, you seem to think spring attack i a special full round action like a charge or so. I'm almost 100% sure you are mistaken on this, to quote to feat description in the PHB "When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed." Spring attack is a move action, followed by a standard action followed by another extra move action. Provided of course "that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed" and the the standard action is the attack option. No where in the feat description does it suggest that Spring Attack is a new action. In conclusion, I'd argue that you do indeed use a stanard attack when you use the spring attack feat. Anyone?? On a side note its not easy to get the 20ft minimum movement you need to beenfit from improved skirmish when you are spring attacking. Base speed 40ft, being a level 8 scout. Spring in and out 20ft each time. Works for me ;0
Nom 09-10-07, 08:51 AM	As it stands, you can't qualify for Slashing Flurry. It requires Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation (Ftr 4), Melee Weapon Mastery and BAB +14. You don't even qualify for Bounding Assault (BAB +12). But let's ignore that. Bounding Assault will give a second attack at -5. It uses the "attack" standard action. I can't tell you whether skirmish damage applies to this since I don't have access to the Scout rules. Slashing Flurry requires "a standard action to attack". This could be a special standard action, but sounds like they mean any standard action that grants an attack. However, the rules specifically grant "a second attack", not just "an additional attack". A plain reading would thus be that you can either get a second attack from Bounding Assault (with a +0/-5 penalty to hit) or from Slashing Flurry (with a -5/-10 penalty to hit), but not both.
Dheran 09-10-07, 11:25 AM	I'm playing a human scout 8/fighter 2/ranger 1 I'm skirmishing with (+5D6, +4 AC, thanks to Improved skirmish and swift hunter) I'm thinking about taking the Bounding Assault feat which would let me have an additional attack when i spring attack. That'll be a while. Bounding Assault requires BAB +12 or better, and you're at +9. To use this feat you'll also need a second designated foe. Does this work with the additional attack gain while activating Skirmisher boots. (for 3 attacks) Yes, it does, as long as you meet the skirmish requirements. What about the additional attack provided by the Slashing Fury feat in PH2. Maybe. There are three difficulties here. Slashing Fury requires you use a standard action to attack. But Spring Attack specifies an "attack action", which is undefined. You'll need to check with your DM about what types of attacks they treat as "attack actions". The prerequisites for Slashing Fury are very steep, and your character isn't close to meeting them. Slashing Fury states:When you use a standard action to attack with any slashing weapon, you can choose to make a second attack with that weapon. Using this feat will require that you've only made a single standard action attack first, so it won't work with Bounding Assault or Rapid Blitz. If i'm reading this right thats 3 attacks a round (activating the boots allows me four attack a round 2/day.) No, it's either Bounding Assault or Slashing Fury, not both. So it's 2 attacks a round, or 3 with your Skirmisher Boots 2x/day. I use a +2 Sweeping guisarme with improved trip, so could i spring in, trip my opponent, attack that prone opponent with the attack improved trip gives, dealing skirmish damage again, then have my second attack (from Bounding Assault )at a -5 penalty, dealing skirmish damage again. This all works, if you get to where you can afford all the feat prerequisites. Note that it's not skirmish damage "again"; the attack after the trip is the first chance to deal skirmish damage. Then activate the boots for another attack at my full base attack, dealing skirmish damage yet again. Yes. Thats 6D4+24+15D6 damage a round. Or with the Slashing Flurry feat, i can take a -5 penalty on my first attack, to get an additional attack with a -10 penalty whenever i use a standard action to attack. No. As I pointed out previously, you can't stack Bounding Assault and Slashing Flurry. Thats 8D4+32+20D6 damage. Is this right? No.
kalstrand 09-10-07, 06:39 PM	Slashing Fury requires you use a standard action to attack. But Spring Attack specifies an "attack action", which is undefined. You'll need to check with your DM about what types of attacks they treat as "attack actions". Actually the attack action is defined. It is the first action listed in the Standard action section of the PHB found on page 139. The attack action lets you make 1 attack. Spring Attack requires the attack action so you can't combine it with Slashing Flurry because Slashing Flurry requires its own standard action. You can combine it with Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz because they were designed to work with Spring Attack.
war_thog 09-10-07, 07:39 PM	Base speed 40ft, being a level 8 scout. Spring in and out 20ft each time. Works for me ;0 Yes thats true. But if anyone moves you're buggered. Or if you are further/closer away you're buggered. Hard to be exact like that. Hard to do with charge too mind, but charges greater range is a good start point.
Dheran 09-10-07, 11:59 PM	Actually the attack action is defined. It is the first action listed in the Standard action section of the PHB found on page 139. The attack action lets you make 1 attack. Not quite. There are standard actions labeled "attack", but the only definition that uses the exact term "attack action" is for "full attack action". So the standard action "attack" is an "attack action", but it isn't the only one that could apply. Spring Attack requires the attack action so you can't combine it with Slashing Flurry because Slashing Flurry requires its own standard action. This isn't the case at all. Here's what Slashing Flurry says:When you use a standard action to attack with any slashing weapon, you can choose to make a second attack with that weapon. Note that this is merely dependent on using a standard action to attack. It in no way requires that this standard action be separate, or ineligible for benefitting from other feats. Contrast this with the language for the Manyshot feat: As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet. See the difference? Manyshot requires its own standard action. Slashing Flurry does not.
kalstrand 09-11-07, 12:40 AM	I will concede the point on Slashing Flurry. Page 139 of the PHB about half way down the page in blue is a section titled Standard Actions. The first standard action listed is titled Attack. The attack action is clearly a specific standard action. If you read that section it goes on about different types of attacks through p139 onto p140 about half way down the left hand column where it comes to the 2nd standard action which is Cast a Spell.
Merestil Haye 09-11-07, 01:37 AM	Not quite. There are standard actions labeled "attack", but the only definition that uses the exact term "attack action" is for "full attack action". So the standard action "attack" is an "attack action", but it isn't the only one that could apply.This is not right. The attack action is defined. It is a standard action that allows the creature to attack once. It is broken down into three subclasses, but the name of each is the attack action. The full attack action is not a subclass of attack action but a completely different action with its own name.
Merestil Haye 09-11-07, 01:42 AM	Spring attack is a move action, followed by a standard action followed by another extra move action. Provided of course "that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed" and the the standard action is the attack option. No where in the feat description does it suggest that Spring Attack is a new action.Neither does it state that Spring Attack gives you an extra move action in the round. If it did it would say so. You take one move action. The normal rules require that you take your other action in the round before or after your move action. Spring Attack lets you take your standard action at some point during your move that is not the start or finish of your movement.
dman11235 09-11-07, 02:00 AM	Spring Attack: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can�t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor. You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack. Not trying to get in, just bringing the feat.
war_thog 09-11-07, 08:06 AM	Right on. So I guess thats a no to many peoples conceptions of what this does and does not do. No slahing flurry and rapid blitz is too high level anyway.
elonin 09-12-07, 07:55 PM	does dual strike work with spring attack?
dman11235 09-12-07, 08:33 PM	What's the wording? (where from?)
elonin 09-12-07, 08:51 PM	Can't find my copy of Complete adventurer but found this in crystal keep. "As a Standard Action, you can make a melee attack with your primary and off-hand weapon. Both attacks use the same attack roll and the worse of the two weapon�s attack modifier. If you are using a one-handed or light weapon in your off-hand, you take a �4 penalty; otherwise the penalty is �10. Each weapon deals its damage normally and reduction/resistance is applied separately. Precision damage (such as sneak attack) is only applied once. A critical hit only deals critical damage from the primary."
dman11235 09-12-07, 09:27 PM	Then no, spring attack is a full round action.
Nom 09-12-07, 10:22 PM	Then no, spring attack is a full round action.Right answer, wrong reason. Spring Attack is not a full round action. From your own quote above: "When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack". The words "full round action" or "full attack" are conspicuously absent; the only action described is the "attack action", which is a type of standard action. The reason you can't use "dual strike" is that it is a standard action that is not the attack action, and Spring Attack requires the attack action. Note the very important difference between "an action that grants an attack" and "the attack action". The attack action is a (standard) action that grants an attack, but there are others. This is same reason as you can't use Manyshot with Shot on the Run: Shot on the Run requires the attack action (which Manyshot is not), not merely a standard action that grants an attack (which Manyshot is).
dman11235 09-12-07, 10:31 PM	True, my bad.
TywinLannister 09-20-07, 08:44 AM	I'm the DM for this character!!! Nightmare...