Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elistar042 09-13-07, 11:38 AM	Say a party had a lvl 2 paladin and a lvl 2 marshal. The paladin of course adds his positive CHA bonus to his saves via divine grace. Does the marshal minor aura, Motivate Charisma, add his positive cha bonus to the paladin...upping the paladin's saves even more? Motivate Charisma reads: Bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks. I was reading the dragonfire adept guide and it mentioned that the marshal aura would double the CHA effects of the DFA. I did a search but couldn't find an exact answer. Thank you!
zorgling25 09-13-07, 11:59 AM	Say a party had a lvl 2 paladin and a lvl 2 marshal. The paladin of course adds his positive CHA bonus to his saves via divine grace. Does the marshal minor aura, Motivate Charisma, add his positive cha bonus to the paladin...upping the paladin's saves even more? Motivate Charisma reads: Bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks. I was reading the dragonfire adept guide and it mentioned that the marshal aura would double the CHA effects of the DFA. I did a search but couldn't find an exact answer. Thank you! Is a saving throw a Charisma check? No. Is a saving throw a skill check? No.
foxtail 09-13-07, 12:14 PM	Even if your Charisma modifier applies to your saving throws, that does not make it a "Charisma check" per se; and it certainly isn't a skill check. However, the saving throw bonus from a marshall's Motivate Fortitude, Motivate Reflex, or Motivate Will auras would stack with the bonus granted by divine grace.
RobbyPants 09-13-07, 12:28 PM	On a semi-realated note: If your DM is running a game using the paladin variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVaria ntsFreedomSlaughterAndTyranny) found in Unearthed Arcana, you can get some nasty abilities combined with Blackguard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm). Typically, a paladin would lose all abilities when they became evil (a prereq for Blackguard), but the variant Paladin of Tyranny or Paladin of Slaughter already are evil. Because the Divine Grace ability from paladin is a typeless modifier as is the benifit from Dark Blassing, they would stack. So, an evil paladin/blackguard of sufficient level would get to add their Charisma mod to their saves twice. Personally, I see this as a bit of an oversight, in that the paladin and blackguard were designed to be mutually exclusive, and the variants came later. Still, it's technically legit, so Elistar042, if you're looking for a cheesy way to boost the heck out of your saves thorugh Cha, there's an answer. ;)
zorgling25 09-13-07, 12:34 PM	On a semi-realated note: If your DM is running a game using the paladin variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVaria ntsFreedomSlaughterAndTyranny) found in Unearthed Arcana, you can get some nasty abilities combined with Blackguard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm). Typically, a paladin would lose all abilities when they became evil (a prereq for Blackguard), but the variant Paladin of Tyranny or Paladin of Slaughter already are evil. Because the Divine Grace ability from paladin is a typeless modifier as is the benifit from Dark Blassing, they would stack. So, an evil paladin/blackguard of sufficient level would get to add their Charisma mod to their saves twice. Personally, I see this as a bit of an oversight, in that the paladin and blackguard were designed to be mutually exclusive, and the variants came later. Still, it's technically legit, so Elistar042, if you're looking for a cheesy way to boost the heck out of your saves thorugh Cha, there's an answer. ;) Throw in Hexblade for Cha to saves AGAIN against Spells and the like.
Elistar042 09-13-07, 12:56 PM	The character I'm playing is actually a 6 paladin of tyranny/2 blackguard. haha. I probably will not be abusing it. I was actually asking due to the fact that I was confused because of what I had read elsewhere. Thanks for the answers all.
The_Ditto 09-13-07, 05:31 PM	Warlock + Marshall = Use Magic Device goodness ... :tiphat: (i did that with my last character - Warlock with a Marshall cohort ... hehe fun ...)