Stand Still and Freedom of Movement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Stand Still and Freedom of Movement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Esponer
07-08-07, 09:04 PM STAND STILL [GENERAL]
You can prevent foes from fleeing or closing.

Prerequisite: Str 13.

Benefit: When a foe’s movement out of a square you threaten grants you an attack of opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm), you can give up that attack and instead attempt to stop your foe in his tracks. Make your attack of opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm) normally. If you hit your foe, he must succeed on a Reflex save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#reflex) against a DC of 10 + your damage roll (the opponent does not actually take damage), or immediately halt as if he had used up his move actions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#moveActions) for the round.

Since you use the Stand Still feat in place of your attack of opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm), you can do so only a number of times per round equal to the number of times per round you could make an attack of opportunity (normally just one).

Normal: Attacks of opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm) cannot halt your foes in their tracks.

— From the Expanded Psionics Handbook (page 51) and System Reference Documents (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill)
_________________________

My question:
A character uses the Stand Still feat to prevent the movement of the target. The target in question has a freedom of movement spell active. Must they "immediately halt as if [they] had used up [their] move actions for the round", or are they immune to the effect of Stand Still?

Secondly, the character uses the Stand Still feat on another target who does not enjoy freedom of movement. Can that target:

Use another move action (instead of a standard action) to move.
Use a swift action to use the Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords manoeuvre Quicksilver Motion, or to use the psionic power hustle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hustle.htm) to grant themselves a move action which they can then use to move.
Use a swift action to perform Sudden Leap (from Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords ) to move by jumping?

Freedom of Movement
Abjuration
Level: Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 4, Luck 4, Rgr 4
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.
Material Component

A leather thong, bound around the arm or a similar appendage.

— Also located at the System Reference Documents (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm)
ShinAkuma2
07-08-07, 09:55 PM Freedom of Movement only protects you from being bound by magic, or impeded by water or being grabbed. For instance, it doesn't let you move through enemies, no matter how much they impede your progress. It doesn't allow you to move without a move action to spend, which is what Stand Still essentially does: Rob you of a move action.

Now, the thing of which I'm not sure is the fact that it says you used your "move actions" for the round. I was about to say that, sure, you can continue to expend actions (standard or swift, as appropriate for the moment/your abilities) to generate more move actions and continue.

However, since it says the target has "used up his move actions for the round," I'd say any move action taken to move up to your speed is no longer possible. If you have a swift action ability to move (one that does not simply generate an extra move action), I'd say that should work, but it's hard to say since Stand Still wasn't written with such as-of-yet nonexistant abilities in mind.
ravenshrike
07-08-07, 10:04 PM FoM defeats stand still. The pertinent quote being: This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web.

The even under is just noting even more circumstances under which it works. Stand still stops you, abnormally. Normally in that situation the person in question can still more, ergo FoM ignores Stand Still.
Nom
07-08-07, 10:45 PM raven, you're assuming a definition of 'normally' that is perhaps unwarranted. Shin makes quite a good point that if you define 'normally' as 'as in clear, unobstructed terrain' then FoM will allow you to move through difficult terrain, enemies and even walls. The latter is obviously not granted by FoM, nor does the spell explicitly cover the other two.

Stand still is not underwater, and it's not magic that impedes movement. It is an Ex ability that causes you to lose the rest of your move action. Heck, most people would rule that FoM won't protect against trip or overrun or bull rush, nor even against magical effects that knock you prone.
Dheran
07-09-07, 01:01 PM The way I read Stand Still, if the foe's initial movement would take them out of your threatened square you can force them to lose their move actions for the round. But since you prevented them from moving any distance, they're still allowed to take a 5' step. So it seems that there's a pretty good workaround for Stand Still even without Freedom of Movement; you can't avoid losing your move actions, but you can still 5' step away.

Also, put me in the camp that thinks the "even under" just describes some of the benefits of the FoM spell, and "move and attack normally" should let you ignore Stand Still.
tafkamhokie
07-09-07, 01:12 PM The unfortunate, but accurate, answer is ask your DM.

Freedom of Movement is one of the most poorly worded spells in the PHB. There are just so many things that hinder your movement that are unclear whether or not FoM works or not.

It clearly works while underwater, against most spells, on difficult terrain, and against grapples.

But what about force effect spells that hinder movement? Repulsion and Bigby's Forceful Hand come to mind. What about a bull rush? A trip attempt? How does it affect you when you have to balance on a narrow or slippery surface?

Being blind hinders your movement, what about that? Technically, a wall of force hinders your movement, but I would like to think no one believes FoM lets you walk through those. Imprisonment does a pretty good job of hindering your movement, too.

How about just being manacled or tied up? You are not being grappled, you are being bound. Do the ropes just fall off? How about being buried in an avalanche?

Way too many questions go along with FoM. They are all up to your DM to make a ruling.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Esponer 07-08-07, 09:04 PM	STAND STILL [GENERAL] You can prevent foes from fleeing or closing. Prerequisite: Str 13. Benefit: When a foe’s movement out of a square you threaten grants you an attack of opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm), you can give up that attack and instead attempt to stop your foe in his tracks. Make your attack of opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm) normally. If you hit your foe, he must succeed on a Reflex save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#reflex) against a DC of 10 + your damage roll (the opponent does not actually take damage), or immediately halt as if he had used up his move actions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#moveActions) for the round. Since you use the Stand Still feat in place of your attack of opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm), you can do so only a number of times per round equal to the number of times per round you could make an attack of opportunity (normally just one). Normal: Attacks of opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm) cannot halt your foes in their tracks. — From the Expanded Psionics Handbook (page 51) and System Reference Documents (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) _________________________ My question: A character uses the Stand Still feat to prevent the movement of the target. The target in question has a freedom of movement spell active. Must they "immediately halt as if [they] had used up [their] move actions for the round", or are they immune to the effect of Stand Still? Secondly, the character uses the Stand Still feat on another target who does not enjoy freedom of movement. Can that target: Use another move action (instead of a standard action) to move. Use a swift action to use the Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords manoeuvre Quicksilver Motion, or to use the psionic power hustle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hustle.htm) to grant themselves a move action which they can then use to move. Use a swift action to perform Sudden Leap (from Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords ) to move by jumping? Freedom of Movement Abjuration Level: Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 4, Luck 4, Rgr 4 Components: V, S, M, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal or touch Target: You or creature touched Duration: 10 min./level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin. The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing. Material Component A leather thong, bound around the arm or a similar appendage. — Also located at the System Reference Documents (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm)
ShinAkuma2 07-08-07, 09:55 PM	Freedom of Movement only protects you from being bound by magic, or impeded by water or being grabbed. For instance, it doesn't let you move through enemies, no matter how much they impede your progress. It doesn't allow you to move without a move action to spend, which is what Stand Still essentially does: Rob you of a move action. Now, the thing of which I'm not sure is the fact that it says you used your "move actions" for the round. I was about to say that, sure, you can continue to expend actions (standard or swift, as appropriate for the moment/your abilities) to generate more move actions and continue. However, since it says the target has "used up his move actions for the round," I'd say any move action taken to move up to your speed is no longer possible. If you have a swift action ability to move (one that does not simply generate an extra move action), I'd say that should work, but it's hard to say since Stand Still wasn't written with such as-of-yet nonexistant abilities in mind.
ravenshrike 07-08-07, 10:04 PM	FoM defeats stand still. The pertinent quote being: This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The even under is just noting even more circumstances under which it works. Stand still stops you, abnormally. Normally in that situation the person in question can still more, ergo FoM ignores Stand Still.
Nom 07-08-07, 10:45 PM	raven, you're assuming a definition of 'normally' that is perhaps unwarranted. Shin makes quite a good point that if you define 'normally' as 'as in clear, unobstructed terrain' then FoM will allow you to move through difficult terrain, enemies and even walls. The latter is obviously not granted by FoM, nor does the spell explicitly cover the other two. Stand still is not underwater, and it's not magic that impedes movement. It is an Ex ability that causes you to lose the rest of your move action. Heck, most people would rule that FoM won't protect against trip or overrun or bull rush, nor even against magical effects that knock you prone.
Dheran 07-09-07, 01:01 PM	The way I read Stand Still, if the foe's initial movement would take them out of your threatened square you can force them to lose their move actions for the round. But since you prevented them from moving any distance, they're still allowed to take a 5' step. So it seems that there's a pretty good workaround for Stand Still even without Freedom of Movement; you can't avoid losing your move actions, but you can still 5' step away. Also, put me in the camp that thinks the "even under" just describes some of the benefits of the FoM spell, and "move and attack normally" should let you ignore Stand Still.
tafkamhokie 07-09-07, 01:12 PM	The unfortunate, but accurate, answer is ask your DM. Freedom of Movement is one of the most poorly worded spells in the PHB. There are just so many things that hinder your movement that are unclear whether or not FoM works or not. It clearly works while underwater, against most spells, on difficult terrain, and against grapples. But what about force effect spells that hinder movement? Repulsion and Bigby's Forceful Hand come to mind. What about a bull rush? A trip attempt? How does it affect you when you have to balance on a narrow or slippery surface? Being blind hinders your movement, what about that? Technically, a wall of force hinders your movement, but I would like to think no one believes FoM lets you walk through those. Imprisonment does a pretty good job of hindering your movement, too. How about just being manacled or tied up? You are not being grappled, you are being bound. Do the ropes just fall off? How about being buried in an avalanche? Way too many questions go along with FoM. They are all up to your DM to make a ruling.