Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gnarl 08-17-07, 12:46 PM	Hi guys, The DM guide mentions that PCs and opponents are entitled Listen and Spot checks to notice each other when neither side is aware of the other but what is the DC of this check? What is the DC of the Listen check to notice someone not trying to conceal its sound? Same with the DC of the Hide check. Does Armor Check penalty apply? Of course these checks take a penalty for distance but I'm missing the base DC. Thank you for your help.
The_Ditto 08-17-07, 01:09 PM	Take another look at the listen skill in the PHB .. it lists all the DCs on the chart. Just use the most appropriate ...
Gnarl 08-17-07, 01:19 PM	Just use the most appropriate ... I'm asking for others advice on which is most appropriate :D.
Puca 08-17-07, 04:39 PM	??? It all depends. How much nosie is the group making? That determines the Listen DC. If you dont see it on the chart, use some thing close or your best judgment. Youre the DM. Having to make the hard calls like this is why we dont require you to buy beer. For Spot, theres distance and circumstantial modifiers. Use 'em. Other than that, Im not sure what youre looking for.
Tedronai 08-17-07, 06:58 PM	From the SRD: Listen DC Sound –10 A battle 0 People talking1 5 A person in medium armor walking at a slow pace (10 ft./round) trying not to make any noise. 10 An unarmored person walking at a slow pace (15 ft./round) trying not to make any noise 15 A 1st-level rogue using Move Silently to sneak past the listener 15 People whispering1 19 A cat stalking 30 An owl gliding in for a kill Assuming the group is not actively conversing (setting the base DC at 0), I'd suggest putting the DC at 2 or 3 for light- or medium-armoured individuals, 1 or 2 for heavily armoured individuals Spot has less information available, but I'd put the base DC at no more than 5 unless they're trying to avoid being seen.
Gnarl 08-18-07, 08:54 AM	I was thinking about DC 0 checks adjusted by armor check penalty and distance. I just wanted opinions but thanks for your help.
Tsuul 08-18-07, 12:14 PM	Armor check penalty???
1 ton ghost 08-18-07, 01:07 PM	-first you have to determine environment: rural/urban/dungeon all the rural types have a quick summary in the DMG: this will set max spot distance for "said patch of woods". it should change if you move to a new scene so to speak. if it's a dungeon, it's significantly easier, your torch/sunrod will be max spotting distance or darkvision. np. typically, the default if DC 20 if you're just wandering around, and go, "oh, look a monster. how odd." same for enemies. Listen is kinda' up in the air. wind and other weather FX will augment this, but if you're not actively "stealthing" via Move Silent, then you gotta' gauge a rough estimate. 20 again? -then you have to determine weather. rain for example halves spotting distance and messes up listen checks. -distraction is a -4 spot/listen as well, etc. -Underdark has rules for spotting distant light. i'd employ that too. just cuz' you can't see the campers at night doesn't mean you can't spot their bonfire far far away. don't even bother making listen checks at this distance. -once both parties are w/in spotting distance, anyone w/in range should be able to roll. DM might want to do this secretly for them. or presume they're Taking 10 like most guards do. -once the encounter actually starts though, you should roll every round and employ Hide and Move Silent rolls vs. corresponding sense checks