Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lord_xarallon 06-14-07, 07:59 AM	It isn't the rogue that is the best, but he just benefits more from it (sneak attack). Monks don't get armor penalty to hide and move silently, and he can sneak faster then the rogue. Rangers get camouflage and hide in plain sight, though wear medium armor (if he's stupid).
NobodyRemembersThis 06-14-07, 08:54 AM	What is your point?
Zaver 06-14-07, 11:38 AM	Are you asking which is the least desirable to have sneak up on you? 'Cause if you are I'd say ranger, best HD, AC and BAB of them all, plus ranged weapon feats for free.
jaelis 06-14-07, 11:44 AM	If you're trying to decide on the most stealthy class, the rogue has an advantage because of getting the most skill points. (It's easy for a rogue to be stealthy without sacrificing other abilities.)
unundindur 06-14-07, 04:39 PM	I say a spellcaster. Invisibility, pass without trace and silence on self. If we are talking higher levels you can also add non-detection, mind blank, levitate, improved invisibility and why not teleport? There are also feats that remove the visual component of spells, if that should be a topic :) Magic is king, which I why I love low-magic :rolleyes:
BW0222 06-14-07, 05:20 PM	lord_xarallon, Anything is possible. However, ... The rogue likely makes a living out of it so, he is going to max it out as well as possible. He is also the one class who likely has a higher dexterity because he can live with lower non-dex scores. Rangers and monks find it hard to live without strength, wisdom, and constitution. The ranger, is typically a scout. No need to sneak up close to watch an enemy camp. That said, he does have access to both pass without trace and hide from animals. The former allows a clean get away and the later prevents those annoying dogs with scent. Other spells are also useful. Longstrider is also useful, not to mention an animal companion along with speak with animals. Your hawk can scout out where the camp is from 500' up. Monk is a strange one. Most monks have issues getting a high dex, since they need str, con, and wis for AC and hit points needed in melee. They also don't have a lot of skill points so when you include tumble, jump, spot, and listen, a few knowledge skills, etc. it becomes hard to keep move silently and hide maxed out.
arjomanes 06-14-07, 07:01 PM	Beguiler. Skills: 6 skill points/level, maxed out intelligence. Sneaky class skills: balance, climb, gather info, forgery, knowledge local, move silently, hide, disguise. Sneaky Spells: Silent Image (look over there, make a wall to hide behind, etc), Disguise Self, Invisibility, Silence, Spider Climb, Nondetection, Greater Invis, Swift Etherealness, Shadow Walk, Power Word Blind (now can you see me?), Screen, Time Stop. Use magic device for more spells. Sneaky Class abilities: Silent spell, still spell bonus feats.
angryscrub 06-14-07, 10:05 PM	Beguiler. Skills: 6 skill points/level, maxed out intelligence. Sneaky class skills: balance, climb, gather info, forgery, knowledge local, move silently, hide, disguise. Sneaky Spells: Silent Image (look over there, make a wall to hide behind, etc), Disguise Self, Invisibility, Silence, Spider Climb, Nondetection, Greater Invis, Swift Etherealness, Shadow Walk, Power Word Blind (now can you see me?), Screen, Time Stop. Use magic device for more spells. Sneaky Class abilities: Silent spell, still spell bonus feats. exactly what i was going to say. and the OP left out scouts, and now factotums (add int to dex and str checks is quite tasty, and a no brainer for a skill monkey to max out int). and i think all too often people forget that you can build a really sneaky bard, same skills and almost as good as beguiler is sneaky magic wise, though it's less likely you'll be able to max out intelligence. oh. and i guess the soulknife. heh.