Stopping fast-healing! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Stopping fast-healing! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
thorofasgard13
12-01-07, 07:15 AM I'm not sure if I saw this somewhere or just imagined it; but I thought I saw an ability that allowed one to attempt to stop a creature from being able to regenerate with fast healing. does anyone know what this may be?

( I think I saw it attached to a monk PrC as an alteration to the stunning fist but not sure )
AngelDust Anderson
12-01-07, 08:55 AM The only thing I can think of is Vile Damage, and that is probably not up your alley. Sorry.
thorofasgard13
12-01-07, 09:29 AM no not vile (unhealable) damage but just stopping them from being able to regenerate from any damage taken. If noone can find something like this I'll craft a feat I guess.
Taren
12-01-07, 09:56 AM no not vile (unhealable) damage but just stopping them from being able to regenerate from any damage taken. If noone can find something like this I'll craft a feat I guess.
fast healing is normal healing...just faster.
anything you do to stop fast healing will also stop normal healing.
vile damage is the only thing that should be able to stop it. why did you want to kill your players?
Biolyticclod
12-01-07, 10:24 AM I'm not keen on the idea of stopping the character from healing... but if you where able to slow the healing... thats another issue then isn't it? You slow the healing rate of a creature with fast healing or regeneration by I don't know delivering a strike that stunts the blood flow or something it could be very useful and just plain cool. Think of how many ogre-magi you could possibly take on!? Outrageous!

If there isn't an ability it should be a high cost feat...

-prereq
improved unarmed, stunning fist, powerattack?, and iron fists?
I don't know I'm at work and with out book or resources other than the SRD and memory.... Which isn't great.
Suspect_Unusual
12-01-07, 10:45 AM I'm fairly sure there's a poison that negates regeneration, though I'm not exactly sure where it is. Complete Scoundrel, mayhaps?
thorofasgard13
12-01-07, 12:35 PM fast healing is normal healing...just faster.
anything you do to stop fast healing will also stop normal healing.
vile damage is the only thing that should be able to stop it. why did you want to kill your players?
There is a subtle difference, one is combat effective one is more flavorful to show the true evil behind damage. Its very easy to stop a players normal healing: keep him fatigued/exhausted, which means he hasn't rested and thus has not healed. But I'm talking more about a way to fight supernatural creatures such as fiends or trolls that have supernaturally fast healing. Over the millenia you would think someone would figure out a way to stop them from regenerating so you could kill them through physical techniques/means.

I do like the idea of the poison, I'll look that up.
strenoth
12-01-07, 01:20 PM well youa re talkign about 2 different abilities there..

for regeneration, you just have to make sure to use the type of attack they are weak to. Like fire or acid for trolls.

for fast healing.. hit them faster/harder! or use poisons...
dman11235
12-01-07, 04:33 PM The poison is in Dungeonscape, and is called Trollbane. It works against anything with regeneration, and only for that attack. There may be another one that you guys are thinking of that works longer, but I haven't seen anything remotely like it.
thorofasgard13
12-01-07, 09:14 PM Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was talking about both fast healing and regeneration. Thank you I'll look up trollbane, and work on a feat that may affect this.
risner
12-02-07, 01:15 AM no not vile (unhealable) damage but just stopping them from being able to regenerate from any damage taken. If noone can find something like this I'll craft a feat I guess.

That is far far far far far too powerful for one feat.
thorofasgard13
12-02-07, 02:05 AM That is far far far far far too powerful for one feat.

True But I figured it could be at the end of a chain.
dman11235
12-02-07, 02:16 AM This isn't the realm of feats, this is the realm of spells/chemicals/powers. Think about it. How are you going to strike a troll differently to avoid regeneration? You aren't. And that's what feats do. They affect you. You need something that affects him, not you.
Koenig
12-02-07, 06:32 AM The spell graymantle (from FRCS/SpC) could do that.
thorofasgard13
12-02-07, 08:07 AM This isn't the realm of feats, this is the realm of spells/chemicals/powers. Think about it. How are you going to strike a troll differently to avoid regeneration? You aren't. And that's what feats do. They affect you. You need something that affects him, not you.
There are many many feats that give you the ability to affect another..:confused: . I was thinking of making it something that can tag onto the monks stunning fist or quivering palm ability as a line that ends in this ability, as they change the way chi flows in your body and say it stops the flow of healing energy in targets body on a failed fort save of *** and stops fast healing abilities for a number of rounds equal to 3+wisdom modifier. Obviously this would be useless against undead and things immune to criticals/stunning but still be effective.
Suspect_Unusual
12-02-07, 01:39 PM If you're going to try to make it a feat, here's a few options you might consider:

1. Negates the healing aspect of the regeneration, but not the regeneration ability itself (Attacks still deal nonlethal damage unless they bypass regeneration, the nonlethal damage just isn't healing at that accelerated rate).

2. Only negates up to 5 points of healing per round, which means something with fast healing 10 is still healing 5 points per round.

Combined with the feat you outlined above, this basically gives you an inconsistent damage per round of up to 5 times your Wisdom Modifier +3. This is quantifiable, easier to balance, and doesn't break regeneration (which is a powerful ability and shouldn't be completely negated easily).
leif008
12-02-07, 01:48 PM You can use Cursed Blade, a 4th lvl assassin spell from the spell compendium. (Swift action, lasts for minutes) Any wounds dealt by the weapon cannot be healed in any way until the subject has had a removed curse spell cast on them. No save, no spell resistance.
dman11235
12-02-07, 04:12 PM What I meant by that was that, well, it's not your opponent that the feat is affecting, it's you that has stunning fist. You now have the ability to do something new. The feat isn't called "this set of monsters are going to be stunned when this monk strikes them at these times". But I do like the stunning fist one (oops, I guess there is a way. And I love monks too). Basing it off of stunning fist will probably work, both balance and flavor wise. I'm struggling to see any other way that will work flavor wise (aside from the supernatural).
Suspect_Unusual
12-02-07, 05:49 PM If it can be made into a balanced feat, I don't see anything wrong with a feat that grants a supernatural ability to inhibit fast healing and/or regeneration.

Balancing it is the difficulty, and I think it will have to involve more than just listing it as the end of some random and/or arduous feat chain.
risner
12-02-07, 08:20 PM You can use Cursed Blade, a 4th lvl assassin spell from the spell compendium. (Swift action, lasts for minutes) Any wounds dealt by the weapon cannot be healed in any way until the subject has had a removed curse spell cast on them. No save, no spell resistance.

Hard to translate, since that sounds like Vile which is a +1 enhancement for 1 point of Vile damage per hit that can't be healed. Meaning, you couldn't make an item that changed all the damage to "vile" without being +4 or maybe +6 enhancement bonus. So translating it into a feat would also be hard.
Megido
12-04-07, 06:49 AM You can hit them with the Desiccate spell from Sandstorm p114. Dehydration damage whether lethal or nonlethal cannot be recovered until the character has been treated for dehydration (Sandstorm p15).
Sinfire Titan
12-04-07, 03:59 PM Three words: Desert Wind Maneuvers!

If it regenerates, fire should overcome the regeneration. If you don't have a martial adept in your party, you aren't well equipped for any encounter.
Suspect_Unusual
12-04-07, 04:09 PM Three words: Desert Wind Maneuvers!

If it regenerates, fire should overcome the regeneration. If you don't have a martial adept in your party, you aren't well equipped for any encounter.

And fire helps against the Tarrasque's regeneration... how?

There's a lot more regenerators than just Trolls, y'know. And you can be well-equipped as a party without martial adepts, you just probably won't have as much fun. :P
tyrecian
12-04-07, 06:40 PM Fast healing heals only to maximum healing potential. Focus on reducing the enemy's constitution and you can essentially negate the enemy's fast healing abilities.

i.e. an 11 headed pyro-hydra has fast healing 15. In order to keep it low on HP, rather than focusing on hitting it (i.e. cone of cold, etc.) focus instead on bringing down its levels (enervation) or its constitution (so its max HPs go down) thereby making its fast heal essentially heal less (although it heals the same amount the con drop will drop its max health that can be healed).

These methods are alternative, not exactly what you asked for, but definately available through many different aspects and abilities. Remember that the fast heal and regeneration are added on the creatures and are modifying the creatures' CRs. Adding a feat that stops fast healing will not solve the problem, especially at the end of a feat chain (which noone would take) as fast healing usually isnt even close to the damage output of most parties anyways.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thorofasgard13 12-01-07, 07:15 AM	I'm not sure if I saw this somewhere or just imagined it; but I thought I saw an ability that allowed one to attempt to stop a creature from being able to regenerate with fast healing. does anyone know what this may be? ( I think I saw it attached to a monk PrC as an alteration to the stunning fist but not sure )
AngelDust Anderson 12-01-07, 08:55 AM	The only thing I can think of is Vile Damage, and that is probably not up your alley. Sorry.
thorofasgard13 12-01-07, 09:29 AM	no not vile (unhealable) damage but just stopping them from being able to regenerate from any damage taken. If noone can find something like this I'll craft a feat I guess.
Taren 12-01-07, 09:56 AM	no not vile (unhealable) damage but just stopping them from being able to regenerate from any damage taken. If noone can find something like this I'll craft a feat I guess. fast healing is normal healing...just faster. anything you do to stop fast healing will also stop normal healing. vile damage is the only thing that should be able to stop it. why did you want to kill your players?
Biolyticclod 12-01-07, 10:24 AM	I'm not keen on the idea of stopping the character from healing... but if you where able to slow the healing... thats another issue then isn't it? You slow the healing rate of a creature with fast healing or regeneration by I don't know delivering a strike that stunts the blood flow or something it could be very useful and just plain cool. Think of how many ogre-magi you could possibly take on!? Outrageous! If there isn't an ability it should be a high cost feat... -prereq improved unarmed, stunning fist, powerattack?, and iron fists? I don't know I'm at work and with out book or resources other than the SRD and memory.... Which isn't great.
Suspect_Unusual 12-01-07, 10:45 AM	I'm fairly sure there's a poison that negates regeneration, though I'm not exactly sure where it is. Complete Scoundrel, mayhaps?
thorofasgard13 12-01-07, 12:35 PM	fast healing is normal healing...just faster. anything you do to stop fast healing will also stop normal healing. vile damage is the only thing that should be able to stop it. why did you want to kill your players? There is a subtle difference, one is combat effective one is more flavorful to show the true evil behind damage. Its very easy to stop a players normal healing: keep him fatigued/exhausted, which means he hasn't rested and thus has not healed. But I'm talking more about a way to fight supernatural creatures such as fiends or trolls that have supernaturally fast healing. Over the millenia you would think someone would figure out a way to stop them from regenerating so you could kill them through physical techniques/means. I do like the idea of the poison, I'll look that up.
strenoth 12-01-07, 01:20 PM	well youa re talkign about 2 different abilities there.. for regeneration, you just have to make sure to use the type of attack they are weak to. Like fire or acid for trolls. for fast healing.. hit them faster/harder! or use poisons...
dman11235 12-01-07, 04:33 PM	The poison is in Dungeonscape, and is called Trollbane. It works against anything with regeneration, and only for that attack. There may be another one that you guys are thinking of that works longer, but I haven't seen anything remotely like it.
thorofasgard13 12-01-07, 09:14 PM	Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was talking about both fast healing and regeneration. Thank you I'll look up trollbane, and work on a feat that may affect this.
risner 12-02-07, 01:15 AM	no not vile (unhealable) damage but just stopping them from being able to regenerate from any damage taken. If noone can find something like this I'll craft a feat I guess. That is far far far far far too powerful for one feat.
thorofasgard13 12-02-07, 02:05 AM	That is far far far far far too powerful for one feat. True But I figured it could be at the end of a chain.
dman11235 12-02-07, 02:16 AM	This isn't the realm of feats, this is the realm of spells/chemicals/powers. Think about it. How are you going to strike a troll differently to avoid regeneration? You aren't. And that's what feats do. They affect you. You need something that affects him, not you.
Koenig 12-02-07, 06:32 AM	The spell graymantle (from FRCS/SpC) could do that.
thorofasgard13 12-02-07, 08:07 AM	This isn't the realm of feats, this is the realm of spells/chemicals/powers. Think about it. How are you going to strike a troll differently to avoid regeneration? You aren't. And that's what feats do. They affect you. You need something that affects him, not you. There are many many feats that give you the ability to affect another..:confused: . I was thinking of making it something that can tag onto the monks stunning fist or quivering palm ability as a line that ends in this ability, as they change the way chi flows in your body and say it stops the flow of healing energy in targets body on a failed fort save of *** and stops fast healing abilities for a number of rounds equal to 3+wisdom modifier. Obviously this would be useless against undead and things immune to criticals/stunning but still be effective.
Suspect_Unusual 12-02-07, 01:39 PM	If you're going to try to make it a feat, here's a few options you might consider: 1. Negates the healing aspect of the regeneration, but not the regeneration ability itself (Attacks still deal nonlethal damage unless they bypass regeneration, the nonlethal damage just isn't healing at that accelerated rate). 2. Only negates up to 5 points of healing per round, which means something with fast healing 10 is still healing 5 points per round. Combined with the feat you outlined above, this basically gives you an inconsistent damage per round of up to 5 times your Wisdom Modifier +3. This is quantifiable, easier to balance, and doesn't break regeneration (which is a powerful ability and shouldn't be completely negated easily).
leif008 12-02-07, 01:48 PM	You can use Cursed Blade, a 4th lvl assassin spell from the spell compendium. (Swift action, lasts for minutes) Any wounds dealt by the weapon cannot be healed in any way until the subject has had a removed curse spell cast on them. No save, no spell resistance.
dman11235 12-02-07, 04:12 PM	What I meant by that was that, well, it's not your opponent that the feat is affecting, it's you that has stunning fist. You now have the ability to do something new. The feat isn't called "this set of monsters are going to be stunned when this monk strikes them at these times". But I do like the stunning fist one (oops, I guess there is a way. And I love monks too). Basing it off of stunning fist will probably work, both balance and flavor wise. I'm struggling to see any other way that will work flavor wise (aside from the supernatural).
Suspect_Unusual 12-02-07, 05:49 PM	If it can be made into a balanced feat, I don't see anything wrong with a feat that grants a supernatural ability to inhibit fast healing and/or regeneration. Balancing it is the difficulty, and I think it will have to involve more than just listing it as the end of some random and/or arduous feat chain.
risner 12-02-07, 08:20 PM	You can use Cursed Blade, a 4th lvl assassin spell from the spell compendium. (Swift action, lasts for minutes) Any wounds dealt by the weapon cannot be healed in any way until the subject has had a removed curse spell cast on them. No save, no spell resistance. Hard to translate, since that sounds like Vile which is a +1 enhancement for 1 point of Vile damage per hit that can't be healed. Meaning, you couldn't make an item that changed all the damage to "vile" without being +4 or maybe +6 enhancement bonus. So translating it into a feat would also be hard.
Megido 12-04-07, 06:49 AM	You can hit them with the Desiccate spell from Sandstorm p114. Dehydration damage whether lethal or nonlethal cannot be recovered until the character has been treated for dehydration (Sandstorm p15).
Sinfire Titan 12-04-07, 03:59 PM	Three words: Desert Wind Maneuvers! If it regenerates, fire should overcome the regeneration. If you don't have a martial adept in your party, you aren't well equipped for any encounter.
Suspect_Unusual 12-04-07, 04:09 PM	Three words: Desert Wind Maneuvers! If it regenerates, fire should overcome the regeneration. If you don't have a martial adept in your party, you aren't well equipped for any encounter. And fire helps against the Tarrasque's regeneration... how? There's a lot more regenerators than just Trolls, y'know. And you can be well-equipped as a party without martial adepts, you just probably won't have as much fun. :P
tyrecian 12-04-07, 06:40 PM	Fast healing heals only to maximum healing potential. Focus on reducing the enemy's constitution and you can essentially negate the enemy's fast healing abilities. i.e. an 11 headed pyro-hydra has fast healing 15. In order to keep it low on HP, rather than focusing on hitting it (i.e. cone of cold, etc.) focus instead on bringing down its levels (enervation) or its constitution (so its max HPs go down) thereby making its fast heal essentially heal less (although it heals the same amount the con drop will drop its max health that can be healed). These methods are alternative, not exactly what you asked for, but definately available through many different aspects and abilities. Remember that the fast heal and regeneration are added on the creatures and are modifying the creatures' CRs. Adding a feat that stops fast healing will not solve the problem, especially at the end of a feat chain (which noone would take) as fast healing usually isnt even close to the damage output of most parties anyways.