Stuck in mid-air ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Stuck in mid-air ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WebJiCi
10-21-07, 07:59 AM Let's say you, as a human, succeeded a Jump check to clear a 30-foot long gap, but only 15 feet were remaining to your movement (such as you've already moved 45 feet as a double move or 105 feet as a run). Technically, the round ends while you're in mid-air, in the middle of the gap, at 7.5 feet higher than you've started. You'll land safety on your next turn, minus the 15 feet used to clear the gap.

What happens until your next turn ? What if you're attacked, blown by a spell or by other sources ? Are you considered helpless, flat-footed ?

That would be good to know.
vorpo
10-21-07, 10:24 AM Well, to make things simple and quantifiable, turn by turn is necessary in DND combat.

To not make things more complicated then this, I'd suggest that your jumping guy is doing a double move, finishing the round on the ground, and can move another 15' after landing (if his BLS is 30'). With this assumption, all your questions wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
AtsuiShoto
10-21-07, 11:23 AM It helps to imagine every combat action as occurring simultaneously. Some get started a little earlier or later than others, but they all overlap. As such, let's say a dragon takes his turn after your leaper (aka: gets started a bit later) and does one of those hovering, flapping, improbably-but-awesome tornado things dragons can do. Rules-wise, your character is stuck in mid-air until his next turn, then the dragon's action causes wind that pushes against him, moving him perpendicular to his original jump and downward into the narrow chasm. "But that's silly!" you say, and you're right. More likely the dragon started flapping his wings before your leaper leapt, blowing him down against and skidding across the ground. How convenient would it be for your leaper to end up at the exact same place, falling uncontrolled into the chasm, at the start of his next turn!

See, the results of the rules don't have to be arrived at in the illogical manner that the rules suggest. So long as you don't alter the result, you haven't altered the way in which the rules react to each other (meaning you haven't spoiled whatever balance is already established).
WebJiCi
10-21-07, 02:16 PM It helps to imagine every combat action as occurring simultaneously. Some get started a little earlier or later than others, but they all overlap. As such, let's say a dragon takes his turn after your leaper (aka: gets started a bit later) and does one of those hovering, flapping, improbably-but-awesome tornado things dragons can do. Rules-wise, your character is stuck in mid-air until his next turn, then the dragon's action causes wind that pushes against him, moving him perpendicular to his original jump and downward into the narrow chasm. "But that's silly!" you say, and you're right. More likely the dragon started flapping his wings before your leaper leapt, blowing him down against and skidding across the ground. How convenient would it be for your leaper to end up at the exact same place, falling uncontrolled into the chasm, at the start of his next turn!

See, the results of the rules don't have to be arrived at in the illogical manner that the rules suggest. So long as you don't alter the result, you haven't altered the way in which the rules react to each other (meaning you haven't spoiled whatever balance is already established).Two sets of words: Wingstorm feat / Tempest Breath feat

No tornado, but a hurricane still can push my jumper.
Greco
10-21-07, 02:32 PM What happens until your next turn ? I'd say you were in mid air if you made it for your move action and started falling afterwards on next turn.

What if you're attacked, blown by a spell or by other sources ? Wind wall would push gust of wind as well, it would depend on angle, direction, and power of the force. Bullrushing digby's hand would 2x the distance.

Are you considered helpless, flat-footed ? No and no.
vorpo
10-21-07, 07:55 PM What happens until your next turn ? I'd say you were in mid air if you made it for your move action and started falling afterwards on next turn.

What if you're attacked, blown by a spell or by other sources ? Wind wall would push gust of wind as well, it would depend on angle, direction, and power of the force. Bullrushing digby's hand would 2x the distance.

Are you considered helpless, flat-footed ? No and no.

I beg to differ. You ARE flat-footed in midair since you are denied dex to AC much the same way when you walk on a beam using Balance skill.

I have thought about Atsui's simultaneous actions. It just won't work in a quantified world of existance.

Seriously tho, just force the character to clear the gap if his Jump check actually makes it regardless of his total movement for the round. For simplicities sake, he's denied of his next movement action if the jumping distance is greater than his movement rate.
strenoth
10-21-07, 09:47 PM I beg to differ. You ARE flat-footed in midair since you are denied dex to AC much the same way when you walk on a beam using Balance skill.

That would be a houserule, unless you can show me where in the rules it says you are denied your Dex bonus while jumping.

And even you lose your dex bonus while jumping, that is NOT the same as being flat footed.

Flat footed is one of multiple conditions that cause one to loose dexterity to AC, but flat footed has other penalties also, such as not being able to make AoOs
vorpo
10-21-07, 10:45 PM Who cares about that if you just use my rule and have him land.
AtsuiShoto
10-22-07, 06:49 PM The rules say that every character after you in initiative order can interact with you for one full round, starting with you simply BEING in mid-air. When it is your turn again, if you are still in the same place, then you are obligated to take a move action to complete your jump, and may then use whatever movement is left over after your jump as part of that same move action.
If you get attacked after you jump, before you finish the jump, then those attacks have to contend with you being in the air above the chasm.

Them's the rules. Of course, AFTER the fact, you can describe the way it all went down as something entirely different, and less dumb.
HARLEYDUDE
10-22-07, 08:37 PM I believe our house rule is if you cant get to the opposite side of the hole you are jumping on 1 round of movement, you cant make the jump. you could move closer this round and jump the next. however i will ask our DM tomorrow night as this hasnt come up yet.
HD
Tsuul
10-22-07, 09:16 PM Think of it like still motion photography. The camera is taking pictures at regular intervals of a moving event. In one picture, the guy happens to be midair.
Greco
10-24-07, 04:38 AM I beg to differ. You ARE flat-footed in midair since you are denied dex to AC much the same way when you walk on a beam using Balance skill.

You can still tumble while falling, so how can you be flat-footed or be denied DEX.
The_Sentin3l
10-24-07, 07:20 AM Man, that would be so cool.

I know I'm the first to say this, but DUDE!! You have on your hands the making of a scene from an awsome scene.

As for attacks, creatures would obviously try to attack him in mid-air. Let them have their attacks. Adds to the flavour of the story. Let him retain his dex bonus. Just to be bad***.
Tordak
10-24-07, 09:01 AM Some creature could attack him mid-air but according to the game mechanic he'd still continue his movement and land on the next turn. But you can come up with lots of cool situations and take the opportunity to add flavour to the fight, like having a huge monster using large and in charge (feat from Draconomicon) and stop the character where he is(thus making him fall), or some creature jumps to to 'bullrush' him mid-air or grapple him, both falling, and stuff like that. Makes the fight more colorfull.

I think actions kind of happen simultaneously because it's only 6 seconds but not exactly because there are initiative turn, but you cannot think of it as a turn based video game (like D&D Tactics for exemple). A creature could react to the character's movement and he can totally be attacked mid-air, and I don't think the player is defenseless or unaware, and altough it could be hard to 'move' out of the way, he should still be able to react appropriatly to the attack, therefore retaining is dex bonus. I'm sure there are rules on combat while airborn in some books (Draconomicon, race of the wild, anything to do with creatures gliding perhaps).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WebJiCi 10-21-07, 07:59 AM	Let's say you, as a human, succeeded a Jump check to clear a 30-foot long gap, but only 15 feet were remaining to your movement (such as you've already moved 45 feet as a double move or 105 feet as a run). Technically, the round ends while you're in mid-air, in the middle of the gap, at 7.5 feet higher than you've started. You'll land safety on your next turn, minus the 15 feet used to clear the gap. What happens until your next turn ? What if you're attacked, blown by a spell or by other sources ? Are you considered helpless, flat-footed ? That would be good to know.
vorpo 10-21-07, 10:24 AM	Well, to make things simple and quantifiable, turn by turn is necessary in DND combat. To not make things more complicated then this, I'd suggest that your jumping guy is doing a double move, finishing the round on the ground, and can move another 15' after landing (if his BLS is 30'). With this assumption, all your questions wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
AtsuiShoto 10-21-07, 11:23 AM	It helps to imagine every combat action as occurring simultaneously. Some get started a little earlier or later than others, but they all overlap. As such, let's say a dragon takes his turn after your leaper (aka: gets started a bit later) and does one of those hovering, flapping, improbably-but-awesome tornado things dragons can do. Rules-wise, your character is stuck in mid-air until his next turn, then the dragon's action causes wind that pushes against him, moving him perpendicular to his original jump and downward into the narrow chasm. "But that's silly!" you say, and you're right. More likely the dragon started flapping his wings before your leaper leapt, blowing him down against and skidding across the ground. How convenient would it be for your leaper to end up at the exact same place, falling uncontrolled into the chasm, at the start of his next turn! See, the results of the rules don't have to be arrived at in the illogical manner that the rules suggest. So long as you don't alter the result, you haven't altered the way in which the rules react to each other (meaning you haven't spoiled whatever balance is already established).
WebJiCi 10-21-07, 02:16 PM	It helps to imagine every combat action as occurring simultaneously. Some get started a little earlier or later than others, but they all overlap. As such, let's say a dragon takes his turn after your leaper (aka: gets started a bit later) and does one of those hovering, flapping, improbably-but-awesome tornado things dragons can do. Rules-wise, your character is stuck in mid-air until his next turn, then the dragon's action causes wind that pushes against him, moving him perpendicular to his original jump and downward into the narrow chasm. "But that's silly!" you say, and you're right. More likely the dragon started flapping his wings before your leaper leapt, blowing him down against and skidding across the ground. How convenient would it be for your leaper to end up at the exact same place, falling uncontrolled into the chasm, at the start of his next turn! See, the results of the rules don't have to be arrived at in the illogical manner that the rules suggest. So long as you don't alter the result, you haven't altered the way in which the rules react to each other (meaning you haven't spoiled whatever balance is already established).Two sets of words: Wingstorm feat / Tempest Breath feat No tornado, but a hurricane still can push my jumper.
Greco 10-21-07, 02:32 PM	What happens until your next turn ? I'd say you were in mid air if you made it for your move action and started falling afterwards on next turn. What if you're attacked, blown by a spell or by other sources ? Wind wall would push gust of wind as well, it would depend on angle, direction, and power of the force. Bullrushing digby's hand would 2x the distance. Are you considered helpless, flat-footed ? No and no.
vorpo 10-21-07, 07:55 PM	What happens until your next turn ? I'd say you were in mid air if you made it for your move action and started falling afterwards on next turn. What if you're attacked, blown by a spell or by other sources ? Wind wall would push gust of wind as well, it would depend on angle, direction, and power of the force. Bullrushing digby's hand would 2x the distance. Are you considered helpless, flat-footed ? No and no. I beg to differ. You ARE flat-footed in midair since you are denied dex to AC much the same way when you walk on a beam using Balance skill. I have thought about Atsui's simultaneous actions. It just won't work in a quantified world of existance. Seriously tho, just force the character to clear the gap if his Jump check actually makes it regardless of his total movement for the round. For simplicities sake, he's denied of his next movement action if the jumping distance is greater than his movement rate.
strenoth 10-21-07, 09:47 PM	I beg to differ. You ARE flat-footed in midair since you are denied dex to AC much the same way when you walk on a beam using Balance skill. That would be a houserule, unless you can show me where in the rules it says you are denied your Dex bonus while jumping. And even you lose your dex bonus while jumping, that is NOT the same as being flat footed. Flat footed is one of multiple conditions that cause one to loose dexterity to AC, but flat footed has other penalties also, such as not being able to make AoOs
vorpo 10-21-07, 10:45 PM	Who cares about that if you just use my rule and have him land.
AtsuiShoto 10-22-07, 06:49 PM	The rules say that every character after you in initiative order can interact with you for one full round, starting with you simply BEING in mid-air. When it is your turn again, if you are still in the same place, then you are obligated to take a move action to complete your jump, and may then use whatever movement is left over after your jump as part of that same move action. If you get attacked after you jump, before you finish the jump, then those attacks have to contend with you being in the air above the chasm. Them's the rules. Of course, AFTER the fact, you can describe the way it all went down as something entirely different, and less dumb.
HARLEYDUDE 10-22-07, 08:37 PM	I believe our house rule is if you cant get to the opposite side of the hole you are jumping on 1 round of movement, you cant make the jump. you could move closer this round and jump the next. however i will ask our DM tomorrow night as this hasnt come up yet. HD
Tsuul 10-22-07, 09:16 PM	Think of it like still motion photography. The camera is taking pictures at regular intervals of a moving event. In one picture, the guy happens to be midair.
Greco 10-24-07, 04:38 AM	I beg to differ. You ARE flat-footed in midair since you are denied dex to AC much the same way when you walk on a beam using Balance skill. You can still tumble while falling, so how can you be flat-footed or be denied DEX.
The_Sentin3l 10-24-07, 07:20 AM	Man, that would be so cool. I know I'm the first to say this, but DUDE!! You have on your hands the making of a scene from an awsome scene. As for attacks, creatures would obviously try to attack him in mid-air. Let them have their attacks. Adds to the flavour of the story. Let him retain his dex bonus. Just to be bad***.
Tordak 10-24-07, 09:01 AM	Some creature could attack him mid-air but according to the game mechanic he'd still continue his movement and land on the next turn. But you can come up with lots of cool situations and take the opportunity to add flavour to the fight, like having a huge monster using large and in charge (feat from Draconomicon) and stop the character where he is(thus making him fall), or some creature jumps to to 'bullrush' him mid-air or grapple him, both falling, and stuff like that. Makes the fight more colorfull. I think actions kind of happen simultaneously because it's only 6 seconds but not exactly because there are initiative turn, but you cannot think of it as a turn based video game (like D&D Tactics for exemple). A creature could react to the character's movement and he can totally be attacked mid-air, and I don't think the player is defenseless or unaware, and altough it could be hard to 'move' out of the way, he should still be able to react appropriatly to the attack, therefore retaining is dex bonus. I'm sure there are rules on combat while airborn in some books (Draconomicon, race of the wild, anything to do with creatures gliding perhaps).