Post/Author/DateTime	Post
theblackpiece 12-10-07, 04:36 PM	ok to me sunder is overpowered. I mean when do you see two guys swordfighting and all the sudden one hits the other guys sword and it breaks in half? So, i thought maybe it would be better to remove improved sunder and just have a sunder feat that does the same thing as the special attack, but requires like 17str and +5 BAB. what do yall think? i am also considering doing this with disarm.
Garonak 12-10-07, 04:43 PM	ok to me sunder is overpowered. I mean when do you see two guys swordfighting and all the sudden one hits the other guys sword and it breaks in half? So, i thought maybe it would be better to remove improved sunder and just have a sunder feat that does the same thing as the special attack, but requires like 17str and +5 BAB. what do yall think? i am also considering doing this with disarm. Do you know how difficult it is to sunder a weapon? Hardness and HP ads up. Especially when you consider that each + on the weapon ads to its hp (and I think it ads hardness aswell) I made a Maug Fighter/Exotic Weapon Master (taking Uncanny Blow and Exotic Sunder) with a Adamantine Dwarven Waraxe and 30+ in str trying to sunder a tiny adamantine spiked chain +2 (or something). He did 40 (rolled below average) in dmg and managed to get the spiked chain down to 0 hp. Note: Adamantine only ignores hardness if its 20 or below. If it's 21 you subtract 21. You also have to remember that few players will be so stupid that they sunder their loot. Sunder = less treasure. Sunder is mainly a DM tool to halp balance wealth per lvl.
StevenO 12-10-07, 06:42 PM	When do you ever see two sword fighters "really" going after each other with intent to kill? Considering that some DMs use houserules causing a weapon to break anytime an attack roll comes up "1" allowing an enemy to do that with deliberate attempts should be nothing. I think you just need to take a better look at the sunder rules and mechanics. I'd really hate to see these uncommon maneuvers moved to "feat only" status. Granted an expert can become good at relieving an opponent of their weapons it is still an option available to everyone although most of the time it probably isn't the best move.
Kouk 12-10-07, 11:05 PM	I have never seen Sunder used by a player against anything that seems remotely sellable, and I personally am hesitant as a DM to use it against anything the PCs own because of how horrible it is to have a very expensive item become worthless. If your DM uses it against you frequently, I could see how you might feel it was overpowered (that would be kind of unfair of the DM because it will mess up your wealth by level), but normally I think it is one of the least used rules, used less even than Bull Rush. Disarming is greatly preferable to Sundering a weapon, if you have any chance of Disarming.
Salla 12-10-07, 11:09 PM	You also have to remember that few players will be so stupid that they sunder their loot. Sunder = less treasure. Sunder is mainly a DM tool to halp balance wealth per lvl. Or, Sunder = Making Sure We Don't Die Because The Bad Guy Has A Weapon We Can't Handle. :)
kuonji 12-11-07, 01:17 AM	Or, Sunder = Making Sure We Don't Die Because The Bad Guy Has A Weapon We Can't Handle. :) True story.
StevenO 12-11-07, 01:38 PM	As for Sunder = Destroyed Treasure I'd instead houserule that sunder just renders an item unusable until repaired. Now the cost and time need to repair an item is based on the base item and does not consider all the magic the item had which is now unusable until the item gets repaired. I believe that somewhere in the RAW it mentions cost saving when rebuilding a sundered magic item but I don't remember where exactly to find it.
Legdiwena 12-11-07, 01:49 PM	After you repair a magic item, it's now just a plain masterwork item, sans magic.
Vegepygmy 12-11-07, 02:30 PM	I believe that somewhere in the RAW it mentions cost saving when rebuilding a sundered magic item but I don't remember where exactly to find it.The Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat description says: You can also mend a broken magic weapon, suit of armor, or shield if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the XP, half the raw materials, and half the time it would take to craft that item in the first place.
G_Mancer 12-12-07, 12:40 PM	you do know that once you break your opponents sword, you cant have it as loot. unless you WANT a broken sword...
Hsien 12-12-07, 03:15 PM	Narsil reforged into Andúril...hmmm if it works for Tolkien it works for me (sometimes)