Supreme Unarmed combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Supreme Unarmed combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheDarkPrince
07-28-07, 07:19 PM Is it worth getting the feat? By how much does the feat inprove your damage?

Thanks, Cheers! :D
Yue Ryong
07-28-07, 07:50 PM I'm going to assume you mean 'Superior Unarmed Combat', and it can be worth it, but only if you intend you be using maneuvers or some other sort of powerful damage increasers, as the loss of magic weapons and Two-Handed Power Attack is a big hit to damage capabilities. If all you want is a backup weapon that can't be taken away, you're better off with IUS, as it only takes one feat. It grants a variable amount of damage, based on your level, which I'm sure the TOS won't let me post. I might get away with saying that it can be used to increase your effective Monk level by four for the purposes of unarmed strike, though (if you have a Monk's unarmed strike ability already).
Kouk
07-29-07, 01:48 AM I'm going to assume what everyone is talking about is Superior Unarmed Strike from Tome of Battle. Which actually has the prerequisite of Improved Unarmed Strike.

I would say for most characters it wouldn't be worth it, though a multiclass Monk, Something/Monk or one of the few other classes that has unarmed damage progression might like it.

It maxes at 16th level with 2d6 damage for someone without some form of normal unarmed damage progression, whether that is worth it to you I couldn't really tell you.

Something to note is, depending on DM interpretation it may or may not stack with the ability granted by a Monk's Belt, because they both seem to function off of your 'base' unarmed damage.

If your goal is simply to never be unarmed, just buy a Spiked Gauntlet or Spiked Armor. You can enchant those if you need to without using up feats.
Steidas
07-29-07, 01:53 AM If you just want to make an unarmed straight fighter... well, it's your best option. Otherwise, you can always just go ahead and check other options (multiclassing, etc).
strenoth
07-29-07, 10:01 AM It's great fun to give to a dragon you know, combined with [improved] multi attack and rapid strike.

Full attack: 5 unarmed strikes of decent damage, + all your natural weapons at -0 penalty as secondary attacks. :-D
TheDarkPrince
07-29-07, 05:28 PM My character is 10 levels of monk, so would the damage increase be worth getting the feat? Does it stack with IUC?

Yeah I meant superior unarmed strike....sorry.

Thanks, Cheers! :D
Kouk
07-29-07, 07:01 PM My character is 10 levels of monk, so would the damage increase be worth getting the feat? Does it stack with IUC?

Yeah I meant superior unarmed combat....sorry.

Thanks, Cheers! :D

Uh... Superior Unarmed Strike. If a Monk takes the feat, he deals damage as a Monk 4 levels higher (with no provision given for what happens when you are level 20).

Keep in mind that a Monk's Belt is only 13,000gp and boosts your unarmed damage by 5 levels (and other things), and probably would not stack with Superior Unarmed Strike's boost. But if ask your DM if they will stack or not.
wonlee76
07-30-07, 10:08 AM Uh... Superior Unarmed Strike. If a Monk takes the feat, he deals damage as a Monk 4 levels higher (with no provision given for what happens when you are level 20).

The epic rules for monk caps the monk's unarmed damage at level 20 so the feat provides no benefit beyond level 16.
Kyoti00
07-30-07, 01:39 PM It is very good for a Monk when combined with Improved Natural Attack. My level 16 monk now does 4d8s a swing and has 5 attacks. Not bad IMO, he's not optimized, but that's not the game we play.
Mojo_Rat
07-30-07, 01:47 PM It's great fun to give to a dragon you know, combined with [improved] multi attack and rapid strike.

Full attack: 5 unarmed strikes of decent damage, + all your natural weapons at -0 penalty as secondary attacks. :-D

If I am misunderstanding here please excuse me but. My understanding of the rules suggests he wuld get either his 5 unarmed strikes + a bite

or claw claw bite but not all unarmed strikes + claw claw bite.

Whenever i have seen a creature with claw-claw bite represented that had monk powers (There is a monk with a ghoul template in Libris mortis for example) It follows the pattern I mentioned.

Is there a Character example from a book where it is shown to work the other way?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDarkPrince 07-28-07, 07:19 PM	Is it worth getting the feat? By how much does the feat inprove your damage? Thanks, Cheers! :D
Yue Ryong 07-28-07, 07:50 PM	I'm going to assume you mean 'Superior Unarmed Combat', and it can be worth it, but only if you intend you be using maneuvers or some other sort of powerful damage increasers, as the loss of magic weapons and Two-Handed Power Attack is a big hit to damage capabilities. If all you want is a backup weapon that can't be taken away, you're better off with IUS, as it only takes one feat. It grants a variable amount of damage, based on your level, which I'm sure the TOS won't let me post. I might get away with saying that it can be used to increase your effective Monk level by four for the purposes of unarmed strike, though (if you have a Monk's unarmed strike ability already).
Kouk 07-29-07, 01:48 AM	I'm going to assume what everyone is talking about is Superior Unarmed Strike from Tome of Battle. Which actually has the prerequisite of Improved Unarmed Strike. I would say for most characters it wouldn't be worth it, though a multiclass Monk, Something/Monk or one of the few other classes that has unarmed damage progression might like it. It maxes at 16th level with 2d6 damage for someone without some form of normal unarmed damage progression, whether that is worth it to you I couldn't really tell you. Something to note is, depending on DM interpretation it may or may not stack with the ability granted by a Monk's Belt, because they both seem to function off of your 'base' unarmed damage. If your goal is simply to never be unarmed, just buy a Spiked Gauntlet or Spiked Armor. You can enchant those if you need to without using up feats.
Steidas 07-29-07, 01:53 AM	If you just want to make an unarmed straight fighter... well, it's your best option. Otherwise, you can always just go ahead and check other options (multiclassing, etc).
strenoth 07-29-07, 10:01 AM	It's great fun to give to a dragon you know, combined with [improved] multi attack and rapid strike. Full attack: 5 unarmed strikes of decent damage, + all your natural weapons at -0 penalty as secondary attacks. :-D
TheDarkPrince 07-29-07, 05:28 PM	My character is 10 levels of monk, so would the damage increase be worth getting the feat? Does it stack with IUC? Yeah I meant superior unarmed strike....sorry. Thanks, Cheers! :D
Kouk 07-29-07, 07:01 PM	My character is 10 levels of monk, so would the damage increase be worth getting the feat? Does it stack with IUC? Yeah I meant superior unarmed combat....sorry. Thanks, Cheers! :D Uh... Superior Unarmed Strike. If a Monk takes the feat, he deals damage as a Monk 4 levels higher (with no provision given for what happens when you are level 20). Keep in mind that a Monk's Belt is only 13,000gp and boosts your unarmed damage by 5 levels (and other things), and probably would not stack with Superior Unarmed Strike's boost. But if ask your DM if they will stack or not.
wonlee76 07-30-07, 10:08 AM	Uh... Superior Unarmed Strike. If a Monk takes the feat, he deals damage as a Monk 4 levels higher (with no provision given for what happens when you are level 20). The epic rules for monk caps the monk's unarmed damage at level 20 so the feat provides no benefit beyond level 16.
Kyoti00 07-30-07, 01:39 PM	It is very good for a Monk when combined with Improved Natural Attack. My level 16 monk now does 4d8s a swing and has 5 attacks. Not bad IMO, he's not optimized, but that's not the game we play.
Mojo_Rat 07-30-07, 01:47 PM	It's great fun to give to a dragon you know, combined with [improved] multi attack and rapid strike. Full attack: 5 unarmed strikes of decent damage, + all your natural weapons at -0 penalty as secondary attacks. :-D If I am misunderstanding here please excuse me but. My understanding of the rules suggests he wuld get either his 5 unarmed strikes + a bite or claw claw bite but not all unarmed strikes + claw claw bite. Whenever i have seen a creature with claw-claw bite represented that had monk powers (There is a monk with a ghoul template in Libris mortis for example) It follows the pattern I mentioned. Is there a Character example from a book where it is shown to work the other way?