Surprise Guard, counters feat too? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Surprise Guard, counters feat too? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Netjack
12-28-07, 02:49 AM So I am looking through the book Ultimate Prestige class, when I see a class called the brawler, who, at level 5 "level 10 min" he would negate 5d6 sneak attack damage. I think that pretty useful, but then one of my friends say that wouldn't matter to some rogues, since he would just throat punch, headshot, or some of the other nice ambush feats in the D&D complete scoundrel book.

To me however, is a, say a level 10 rogue, where to try any of his feats, he could not since anything he does would not go over the 5d6 negate damage. a throat punch for example, cost 3d6 to actually do, to me, this "the brawler" would see that "level" of a sneak attack and would negate it. However, if it was a level 17 rogue, with his 9d6 sneak attack damage, 5d6 of it would be negated, but his remainder 4d6, would still be free for him to use as he wishes. Since after all, he is a very experienced rogue.

This would also mean a pure spell thief could never steal any spells from a character with this class.

"Although a character with this class shouldn't be concentrating on casting spell anyway, but then again, I could see some crazy results."

So what would you say, would this negate ambush feats if a rogue could not beat his sneak attack negation, or, since its not actual sneak attack damage, it would hit him regardless of the person doing it.
Kouk
12-28-07, 04:16 AM So I am looking through the book Ultimate Prestige class, when I see a class called the brawler, who, at level 5 "level 10 min" he would negate 5d6 sneak attack damage. I think that pretty useful, but then one of my friends say that wouldn't matter to some rogues, since he would just throat punch, headshot, or some of the other nice ambush feats in the D&D complete scoundrel book.

To me however, is a, say a level 10 rogue, where to try any of his feats, he could not since anything he does would not go over the 5d6 negate damage. a throat punch for example, cost 3d6 to actually do, to me, this "the brawler" would see that "level" of a sneak attack and would negate it. However, if it was a level 17 rogue, with his 9d6 sneak attack damage, 5d6 of it would be negated, but his remainder 4d6, would still be free for him to use as he wishes. Since after all, he is a very experienced rogue.

This would also mean a pure spell thief could never steal any spells from a character with this class.

"Although a character with this class shouldn't be concentrating on casting spell anyway, but then again, I could see some crazy results."

So what would you say, would this negate ambush feats if a rogue could not beat his sneak attack negation, or, since its not actual sneak attack damage, it would hit him regardless of the person doing it.

I won't claim to wholly understand that class ability because I don't have that book, but I would think if it states it negates up to 5d6 of "damage" then Ambush feats would work normally. With Ambush feats you trade away the potential of doing damage for some other effect which does not actually do direct damage itself.
Netjack
12-28-07, 04:24 AM It should also be noted that this book is older, and ideas like ambush feats might not have been considered.

Surprise Guard: The brawler knows the value of his eyes being open during a fight, it is difficult for him to be caught unaware. He may negate one die of sneak attack damage for every class level if the sneak attack is successful.
Kouk
12-28-07, 04:45 AM Personally, I would still say it only applies to damage.

Damage would usually be the most dangerous part of a Sneak Attack though, except maybe for Throat Punch on a spellcaster.

I also don't think you have to worry much about enemies using Ambush feats against you, many of them require significant class levels and the variety of them would mean even if an enemy has one or two Ambush feats they may not be the most effective against your character. Hit Point damage is always effective no matter what though. If the DM wants to design a character to specifically counter yours, there's not much you can do about it anyway, so I wouldn't worry about Ambush feats.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Netjack 12-28-07, 02:49 AM	So I am looking through the book Ultimate Prestige class, when I see a class called the brawler, who, at level 5 "level 10 min" he would negate 5d6 sneak attack damage. I think that pretty useful, but then one of my friends say that wouldn't matter to some rogues, since he would just throat punch, headshot, or some of the other nice ambush feats in the D&D complete scoundrel book. To me however, is a, say a level 10 rogue, where to try any of his feats, he could not since anything he does would not go over the 5d6 negate damage. a throat punch for example, cost 3d6 to actually do, to me, this "the brawler" would see that "level" of a sneak attack and would negate it. However, if it was a level 17 rogue, with his 9d6 sneak attack damage, 5d6 of it would be negated, but his remainder 4d6, would still be free for him to use as he wishes. Since after all, he is a very experienced rogue. This would also mean a pure spell thief could never steal any spells from a character with this class. "Although a character with this class shouldn't be concentrating on casting spell anyway, but then again, I could see some crazy results." So what would you say, would this negate ambush feats if a rogue could not beat his sneak attack negation, or, since its not actual sneak attack damage, it would hit him regardless of the person doing it.
Kouk 12-28-07, 04:16 AM	So I am looking through the book Ultimate Prestige class, when I see a class called the brawler, who, at level 5 "level 10 min" he would negate 5d6 sneak attack damage. I think that pretty useful, but then one of my friends say that wouldn't matter to some rogues, since he would just throat punch, headshot, or some of the other nice ambush feats in the D&D complete scoundrel book. To me however, is a, say a level 10 rogue, where to try any of his feats, he could not since anything he does would not go over the 5d6 negate damage. a throat punch for example, cost 3d6 to actually do, to me, this "the brawler" would see that "level" of a sneak attack and would negate it. However, if it was a level 17 rogue, with his 9d6 sneak attack damage, 5d6 of it would be negated, but his remainder 4d6, would still be free for him to use as he wishes. Since after all, he is a very experienced rogue. This would also mean a pure spell thief could never steal any spells from a character with this class. "Although a character with this class shouldn't be concentrating on casting spell anyway, but then again, I could see some crazy results." So what would you say, would this negate ambush feats if a rogue could not beat his sneak attack negation, or, since its not actual sneak attack damage, it would hit him regardless of the person doing it. I won't claim to wholly understand that class ability because I don't have that book, but I would think if it states it negates up to 5d6 of "damage" then Ambush feats would work normally. With Ambush feats you trade away the potential of doing damage for some other effect which does not actually do direct damage itself.
Netjack 12-28-07, 04:24 AM	It should also be noted that this book is older, and ideas like ambush feats might not have been considered. Surprise Guard: The brawler knows the value of his eyes being open during a fight, it is difficult for him to be caught unaware. He may negate one die of sneak attack damage for every class level if the sneak attack is successful.
Kouk 12-28-07, 04:45 AM	Personally, I would still say it only applies to damage. Damage would usually be the most dangerous part of a Sneak Attack though, except maybe for Throat Punch on a spellcaster. I also don't think you have to worry much about enemies using Ambush feats against you, many of them require significant class levels and the variety of them would mean even if an enemy has one or two Ambush feats they may not be the most effective against your character. Hit Point damage is always effective no matter what though. If the DM wants to design a character to specifically counter yours, there's not much you can do about it anyway, so I wouldn't worry about Ambush feats.