Swapping Summon Familiar for ??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Swapping Summon Familiar for ??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
El_Shawno
03-20-07, 05:17 PM Hey all,

I'm planning on playing a rogue/wizard that will eventually become either an Arcane Trickster or an Unseen Seer (mmmmmaybe a Spellwarp Sniper, but only maybe). At any rate, I'm thinking that since I'll be getting 'up close and personal' with any enemies that a familiar would be a net liability. And since it'd be a net liability, I don't see the use in keeping the Summon Familiar feat. The question then, is: what useful feats are good candidates to replace Summon Familiar?

Thanks!
Keeper of the Mists
03-20-07, 05:22 PM Well, first of all, summon familiar is a class ability, not a feat. So in theory, you can't just replace it with a feat.

That being said...specialist wizards have alternate abilities available in several books (I can think of Unearthed Arcana and Player's Handbook II offhand) that allow you to sacrifice your ability to summon a familiar for handy abilities that are school specific. But you have to be a specialist wizard in order to do that.
malignor
03-20-07, 05:45 PM Having a familiar is amazingly useful.

- 1/2 your hitpoints
- All your HD
- Your base saves (or its own, whichever is better for each save)
- Your skill ranks (or its own, whichever is better for each skill)

These all keep scaling as you level, no matter your class.

The familiar advancement stuff itself isn't huge, in my opinion. Just getting a familiar to reroll all the mental skills you try is very nice. It's like getting 2 spots, 2 listens, 2 searches, 2 knowledges, 2 spellcrafts and so on.

Plus, your familiar is so small, it can take full cover behind you.
Or it can just fly away during combat.
Or you can polymorph it into a big beasty to help in combat.
Share Spells is amazing.

that being said, I suggest you reconsider.
primemover003
03-20-07, 05:47 PM Issue #338 of Dragon magazine has an article on replacing your Familiar with a Wizard's Staff.

Check it out HERE!!! (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/issues/2005/338)
ZeroNumerous
03-20-07, 06:02 PM "Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability"

Sixth level spell that lets your familiar cast spells at caster level/3 and cast caster level/3 level spells.

Keeping your familiar is actually rather useful if you're willing to invest alittle into it.
Kratch
03-20-07, 10:06 PM There are some nice feats in PHBII (i think) that turn your familiar into a more capable combat creature. Alternatively, there are a number of class varients and racial substitution levels that trade out sorcerer familiars. As to wizard options... not sure.
shadowpavement
03-21-07, 11:07 AM Since Summon Familiar is a feat in Complete Arcane for those arcane class that don't get a familier normally I don't see any reason you couldn't swap it our for a metamagic feat like Sudden Extend or Sudden Silent.

I my games I hate keeping track of extra critters like familiars and animal companions, so I usualy make my players swap out the ability for another feat.
Arkeas
03-21-07, 08:18 PM If you do not want it, and are thinking of getting up close and personal, I suggest specializing in conjuration and taking the alternate ability from PHII that lets you teleport 10ft as an immediate action as many times per day as your intelligence modifier.

"The giant winds up to slam it's club down on your face"

"I teleport 10ft."
lint trap
03-21-07, 08:27 PM Dragon Magazine has published a handful of familiar replacements. The easiest is to just lose it through a flaw, allowing you to gain an extra feat. My favorite variant replaces the familiar with the Bardic Knowledge ability.
kelvinaw273
03-21-07, 08:34 PM Sorcerer has the option in PHBII to use metamagic on the fly and not take full round to cast in exchange for the familiar. Wizard may have similar options (I can't recall) and there are definitely some good ones in UA.
1hitparry
03-21-07, 08:46 PM Keep your familiar. Go Wizard 20. Shapechange yourself and your familiar into Titans. Go to town.
El_Shawno
03-22-07, 02:28 AM Dragon Magazine has published a handful of familiar replacements. The easiest is to just lose it through a flaw, allowing you to gain an extra feat. My favorite variant replaces the familiar with the Bardic Knowledge ability.

Considering that I'm planning on playing a Rogue/Wizard, that'd a pretty awesome feat; that, or it'd push me towards being a bit 'broken-ish.' Still...
Fireclave
03-22-07, 02:40 AM Consider being a familiarist. Instead of getting rid of your familiar, you make it into a much more powerful and useful companion. And if you have a cat, you get move silently as a class skill. It's a win-win.
El_Shawno
03-22-07, 01:05 PM Consider being a familiarist. Instead of getting rid of your familiar, you make it into a much more powerful and useful companion. And if you have a cat, you get move silently as a class skill. It's a win-win.

If I do take a familiar, I'll likely take a rat. The Fortitude bonus would be a great help as I'm gonna have that as my weakest save.
Knute
03-22-07, 02:21 PM I honestly think a familiar is more help to a rogue wizard than to a straight wizard.

Give your rat an end of silk rope and have him go tie you a secure line. Lower your rat on a rope and have him lift a delicate jewel for you. Who would suspect another rat in the alley of being your lookout?

I wouldn't give it up lightly. I also wouldnt come to your dm with a finished choice like it was a done deal.

K
warbird106
03-28-07, 08:42 PM There are many different options for wizards... first of all, if you become a wizard, Summon Familiar does not count as a feat, so you can get a feat as well, but if you do not want a familiar, you can get some alternate class features from the PHII. But to get these abilities, you must specialize in a school of magic, i.e Illusionist, who would get the ability to use mirror image a certain amount of times a day as a spell like ability. If you are going for Sorcerer, you would get a class feature that lets you add metamagic feats without increasing casting time. If you want me to tell you the spell like ability for a certain specialization, just ask.
madd0g200
03-29-07, 07:37 AM If you keep your familiar on your character, ie. in a backpack, under your cloak, etc., it is considered an attended object for the sake of attacks and spells. Sure, a really mean enemy could try to hit it, the same way that an enemy could try to sunder your weapon. But it also means that familiars usually don't take damage from AE spells like fireball. Also, if you keep the familiar hidden, the enemy should have no reason to know it is there.
SunTzuWarmaster
03-29-07, 08:37 AM As an illusionist, I ditched my familiar for creating 1 Mirror Image.

This is not appreciated as powerful, but I think that people don't use it right. You don't use this for combat (except at low levels, when you use it ALL the time).

Spellcasters Have a 50% miss chance (int mod)/day. You cannot cast a quickened spell the round after you use this.

Spellcaster: Disintegrate
Illusionist: Mirror Image
CantripN
03-30-07, 07:01 AM Dragon Magazine has published a handful of familiar replacements. The easiest is to just lose it through a flaw, allowing you to gain an extra feat. My favorite variant replaces the familiar with the Bardic Knowledge ability.

That, I'd like to see. Issue number?
herceg
03-30-07, 07:42 AM Spellcaster: Disintegrate
Illusionist: Mirror Image

This shouldn't work: the time you 'notice' the other caster using this spell, (s)he already targeted you - so, you could be "mirror imaged", but that shouldn't matter concerning that particular spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
El_Shawno 03-20-07, 05:17 PM	Hey all, I'm planning on playing a rogue/wizard that will eventually become either an Arcane Trickster or an Unseen Seer (mmmmmaybe a Spellwarp Sniper, but only maybe). At any rate, I'm thinking that since I'll be getting 'up close and personal' with any enemies that a familiar would be a net liability. And since it'd be a net liability, I don't see the use in keeping the Summon Familiar feat. The question then, is: what useful feats are good candidates to replace Summon Familiar? Thanks!
Keeper of the Mists 03-20-07, 05:22 PM	Well, first of all, summon familiar is a class ability, not a feat. So in theory, you can't just replace it with a feat. That being said...specialist wizards have alternate abilities available in several books (I can think of Unearthed Arcana and Player's Handbook II offhand) that allow you to sacrifice your ability to summon a familiar for handy abilities that are school specific. But you have to be a specialist wizard in order to do that.
malignor 03-20-07, 05:45 PM	Having a familiar is amazingly useful. - 1/2 your hitpoints - All your HD - Your base saves (or its own, whichever is better for each save) - Your skill ranks (or its own, whichever is better for each skill) These all keep scaling as you level, no matter your class. The familiar advancement stuff itself isn't huge, in my opinion. Just getting a familiar to reroll all the mental skills you try is very nice. It's like getting 2 spots, 2 listens, 2 searches, 2 knowledges, 2 spellcrafts and so on. Plus, your familiar is so small, it can take full cover behind you. Or it can just fly away during combat. Or you can polymorph it into a big beasty to help in combat. Share Spells is amazing. that being said, I suggest you reconsider.
primemover003 03-20-07, 05:47 PM	Issue #338 of Dragon magazine has an article on replacing your Familiar with a Wizard's Staff. Check it out HERE!!! (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/issues/2005/338)
ZeroNumerous 03-20-07, 06:02 PM	"Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability" Sixth level spell that lets your familiar cast spells at caster level/3 and cast caster level/3 level spells. Keeping your familiar is actually rather useful if you're willing to invest alittle into it.
Kratch 03-20-07, 10:06 PM	There are some nice feats in PHBII (i think) that turn your familiar into a more capable combat creature. Alternatively, there are a number of class varients and racial substitution levels that trade out sorcerer familiars. As to wizard options... not sure.
shadowpavement 03-21-07, 11:07 AM	Since Summon Familiar is a feat in Complete Arcane for those arcane class that don't get a familier normally I don't see any reason you couldn't swap it our for a metamagic feat like Sudden Extend or Sudden Silent. I my games I hate keeping track of extra critters like familiars and animal companions, so I usualy make my players swap out the ability for another feat.
Arkeas 03-21-07, 08:18 PM	If you do not want it, and are thinking of getting up close and personal, I suggest specializing in conjuration and taking the alternate ability from PHII that lets you teleport 10ft as an immediate action as many times per day as your intelligence modifier. "The giant winds up to slam it's club down on your face" "I teleport 10ft."
lint trap 03-21-07, 08:27 PM	Dragon Magazine has published a handful of familiar replacements. The easiest is to just lose it through a flaw, allowing you to gain an extra feat. My favorite variant replaces the familiar with the Bardic Knowledge ability.
kelvinaw273 03-21-07, 08:34 PM	Sorcerer has the option in PHBII to use metamagic on the fly and not take full round to cast in exchange for the familiar. Wizard may have similar options (I can't recall) and there are definitely some good ones in UA.
1hitparry 03-21-07, 08:46 PM	Keep your familiar. Go Wizard 20. Shapechange yourself and your familiar into Titans. Go to town.
El_Shawno 03-22-07, 02:28 AM	Dragon Magazine has published a handful of familiar replacements. The easiest is to just lose it through a flaw, allowing you to gain an extra feat. My favorite variant replaces the familiar with the Bardic Knowledge ability. Considering that I'm planning on playing a Rogue/Wizard, that'd a pretty awesome feat; that, or it'd push me towards being a bit 'broken-ish.' Still...
Fireclave 03-22-07, 02:40 AM	Consider being a familiarist. Instead of getting rid of your familiar, you make it into a much more powerful and useful companion. And if you have a cat, you get move silently as a class skill. It's a win-win.
El_Shawno 03-22-07, 01:05 PM	Consider being a familiarist. Instead of getting rid of your familiar, you make it into a much more powerful and useful companion. And if you have a cat, you get move silently as a class skill. It's a win-win. If I do take a familiar, I'll likely take a rat. The Fortitude bonus would be a great help as I'm gonna have that as my weakest save.
Knute 03-22-07, 02:21 PM	I honestly think a familiar is more help to a rogue wizard than to a straight wizard. Give your rat an end of silk rope and have him go tie you a secure line. Lower your rat on a rope and have him lift a delicate jewel for you. Who would suspect another rat in the alley of being your lookout? I wouldn't give it up lightly. I also wouldnt come to your dm with a finished choice like it was a done deal. K
warbird106 03-28-07, 08:42 PM	There are many different options for wizards... first of all, if you become a wizard, Summon Familiar does not count as a feat, so you can get a feat as well, but if you do not want a familiar, you can get some alternate class features from the PHII. But to get these abilities, you must specialize in a school of magic, i.e Illusionist, who would get the ability to use mirror image a certain amount of times a day as a spell like ability. If you are going for Sorcerer, you would get a class feature that lets you add metamagic feats without increasing casting time. If you want me to tell you the spell like ability for a certain specialization, just ask.
madd0g200 03-29-07, 07:37 AM	If you keep your familiar on your character, ie. in a backpack, under your cloak, etc., it is considered an attended object for the sake of attacks and spells. Sure, a really mean enemy could try to hit it, the same way that an enemy could try to sunder your weapon. But it also means that familiars usually don't take damage from AE spells like fireball. Also, if you keep the familiar hidden, the enemy should have no reason to know it is there.
SunTzuWarmaster 03-29-07, 08:37 AM	As an illusionist, I ditched my familiar for creating 1 Mirror Image. This is not appreciated as powerful, but I think that people don't use it right. You don't use this for combat (except at low levels, when you use it ALL the time). Spellcasters Have a 50% miss chance (int mod)/day. You cannot cast a quickened spell the round after you use this. Spellcaster: Disintegrate Illusionist: Mirror Image
CantripN 03-30-07, 07:01 AM	Dragon Magazine has published a handful of familiar replacements. The easiest is to just lose it through a flaw, allowing you to gain an extra feat. My favorite variant replaces the familiar with the Bardic Knowledge ability. That, I'd like to see. Issue number?
herceg 03-30-07, 07:42 AM	Spellcaster: Disintegrate Illusionist: Mirror Image This shouldn't work: the time you 'notice' the other caster using this spell, (s)he already targeted you - so, you could be "mirror imaged", but that shouldn't matter concerning that particular spell.