Taking 20 on a craft check [Archive] - Wizards Community

Taking 20 on a craft check [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Windspear
10-12-07, 03:16 PM Taking 20: When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

From this we learn that if you take 20 on a craft check, you will fail and fail untill you succeed.
We also know that when failing the craft DC by more than 5, you lose the material components and need to buy them again.
Considering these 2 fact, we think that it isn't worth it taking 20 on a craft check.

I think it is.

Lets look at this build (yes, I know it seems overpowered, but it's 85 point-buy. It's legal where I come from)
Human fighter, level 1.
STR 18 +4
DEX 13 +1
CON 16 +3
INT 18 +4
WIS 10 +0
CHA 10 +0

(yes, I know it seems overpowered, but it's 85 point-buy. It's legal where I come from)

Feats: Skill Focus [Craft [Armorsmithing]], Improved Initiative, Power Attack.
Skills: Climb (4+4), Craft [Armorsmithing] (4+4+3), Craft [Weaponsmithing] (4+4), Jump (4+4).

That means 11 on armorsmithing, and when we add a masterwork crafting kit, we get a total of a +13 modifier to armorsmithing checks.
The DC to craft a fullplate is 18. If we get 1 on the d20, the total result will be 14. Although 14 doesn't mean a success on the check, it's not a critical faliure, meaning that we don't need to spend more money on new materials.
Because we take 20, that means 20 on every roll. According to craft rules, we multiply the d20 result by the DC untill we get to the item's price in sp.
If we get 20 on each roll, we will finish a full plate in 41 weeks (in 1st level) without the fear for a critical faliure.

Craft safely people.
Legdiwena
10-12-07, 03:34 PM When you take 20, it takes 20 times as long and will fail while doing so. By RAW you would have to spend 20 times material cost to do so.
Eerongal
10-12-07, 03:35 PM [I]Taking 20: When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20.....

[I]
...when failing the craft DC by more than 5, you lose the material components and need to buy them again.....

Sounds like a penalty to me.

Also note that by the opening paragraph on taking a 20, the time taken for an individual check is multiplied by 20 (2 minutes for a full round or standard action check) meaning that your craft check duration would be multiplied by 20 for use, which at the rate of a craft check a week, 20 weeks is a long time to get your crafted item.
Legdiwena
10-12-07, 03:43 PM His set of full plate would be 820 weeks. Almost 16 years, heheh
Eerongal
10-12-07, 03:46 PM His set of full plate would be 820 weeks. Almost 16 years, heheh

Well, maybe you'd get some satisfaction out of finally finishing it :P
Loki5654
10-12-07, 04:49 PM Taking 20
When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20.
If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week.

If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again.
The Craft skill has penalties for failure, thus you cannot Take 20.
FrostWolf
10-13-07, 04:39 AM The Craft skill has penalties for failure, thus you cannot Take 20.

But can you take 10, then take 10 again to further cut down the time to make it? If so, what is the limit on 10s you can take? untill it isn't possable to make it?
Nom
10-13-07, 06:31 AM Strictly speaking, you can take 20 on a craft check if you cannot fail by more than 4. But this means you need only roll 5 or more to succeed, so why the heck aren't you taking 10 instead?
But can you take 10, then take 10 again to further cut down the time to make it? If so, what is the limit on 10s you can take? untill it isn't possable to make it?Huh?

Normal practice on a craft check is to bump the difficulty up to the highest DC you can still take 10 on, and then craft from there. You don't make multiple checks per week - you make a single check at whatever your chosen DC is.
FrostWolf
10-13-07, 06:50 AM Strictly speaking, you can take 20 on a craft check if you cannot fail by more than 4. But this means you need only roll 5 or more to succeed, so why the heck aren't you taking 10 instead?
Huh?

Normal practice on a craft check is to bump the difficulty up to the highest DC you can still take 10 on, and then craft from there. You don't make multiple checks per week - you make a single check at whatever your chosen DC is.

Sorry. I was tired and misworded that. What I'm asking is, if you can up the DC by 10 to make an item sooner, can you up the DC again and make the item in even less time? (for a total of +20 to the DC, but you make the item in 1/4 the tome)
Nom
10-13-07, 05:31 PM What I'm asking is, if you can up the DC by 10 to make an item sooner, can you up the DC again and make the item in even less time? (for a total of +20 to the DC, but you make the item in 1/4 the tome)It's not a simple halving (ie +10 does not necessarily imply half time), but otherwise yes. The PH doesn't explicitly say so, but you can up the DC by as much as you feel comfortable, and the standard result * DC formula applies.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Windspear 10-12-07, 03:16 PM	Taking 20: When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20. From this we learn that if you take 20 on a craft check, you will fail and fail untill you succeed. We also know that when failing the craft DC by more than 5, you lose the material components and need to buy them again. Considering these 2 fact, we think that it isn't worth it taking 20 on a craft check. I think it is. Lets look at this build (yes, I know it seems overpowered, but it's 85 point-buy. It's legal where I come from) Human fighter, level 1. STR 18 +4 DEX 13 +1 CON 16 +3 INT 18 +4 WIS 10 +0 CHA 10 +0 (yes, I know it seems overpowered, but it's 85 point-buy. It's legal where I come from) Feats: Skill Focus [Craft [Armorsmithing]], Improved Initiative, Power Attack. Skills: Climb (4+4), Craft [Armorsmithing] (4+4+3), Craft [Weaponsmithing] (4+4), Jump (4+4). That means 11 on armorsmithing, and when we add a masterwork crafting kit, we get a total of a +13 modifier to armorsmithing checks. The DC to craft a fullplate is 18. If we get 1 on the d20, the total result will be 14. Although 14 doesn't mean a success on the check, it's not a critical faliure, meaning that we don't need to spend more money on new materials. Because we take 20, that means 20 on every roll. According to craft rules, we multiply the d20 result by the DC untill we get to the item's price in sp. If we get 20 on each roll, we will finish a full plate in 41 weeks (in 1st level) without the fear for a critical faliure. Craft safely people.
Legdiwena 10-12-07, 03:34 PM	When you take 20, it takes 20 times as long and will fail while doing so. By RAW you would have to spend 20 times material cost to do so.
Eerongal 10-12-07, 03:35 PM	[I]Taking 20: When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20..... [I] ...when failing the craft DC by more than 5, you lose the material components and need to buy them again..... Sounds like a penalty to me. Also note that by the opening paragraph on taking a 20, the time taken for an individual check is multiplied by 20 (2 minutes for a full round or standard action check) meaning that your craft check duration would be multiplied by 20 for use, which at the rate of a craft check a week, 20 weeks is a long time to get your crafted item.
Legdiwena 10-12-07, 03:43 PM	His set of full plate would be 820 weeks. Almost 16 years, heheh
Eerongal 10-12-07, 03:46 PM	His set of full plate would be 820 weeks. Almost 16 years, heheh Well, maybe you'd get some satisfaction out of finally finishing it :P
Loki5654 10-12-07, 04:49 PM	Taking 20 When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week. If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again. The Craft skill has penalties for failure, thus you cannot Take 20.
FrostWolf 10-13-07, 04:39 AM	The Craft skill has penalties for failure, thus you cannot Take 20. But can you take 10, then take 10 again to further cut down the time to make it? If so, what is the limit on 10s you can take? untill it isn't possable to make it?
Nom 10-13-07, 06:31 AM	Strictly speaking, you can take 20 on a craft check if you cannot fail by more than 4. But this means you need only roll 5 or more to succeed, so why the heck aren't you taking 10 instead? But can you take 10, then take 10 again to further cut down the time to make it? If so, what is the limit on 10s you can take? untill it isn't possable to make it?Huh? Normal practice on a craft check is to bump the difficulty up to the highest DC you can still take 10 on, and then craft from there. You don't make multiple checks per week - you make a single check at whatever your chosen DC is.
FrostWolf 10-13-07, 06:50 AM	Strictly speaking, you can take 20 on a craft check if you cannot fail by more than 4. But this means you need only roll 5 or more to succeed, so why the heck aren't you taking 10 instead? Huh? Normal practice on a craft check is to bump the difficulty up to the highest DC you can still take 10 on, and then craft from there. You don't make multiple checks per week - you make a single check at whatever your chosen DC is. Sorry. I was tired and misworded that. What I'm asking is, if you can up the DC by 10 to make an item sooner, can you up the DC again and make the item in even less time? (for a total of +20 to the DC, but you make the item in 1/4 the tome)
Nom 10-13-07, 05:31 PM	What I'm asking is, if you can up the DC by 10 to make an item sooner, can you up the DC again and make the item in even less time? (for a total of +20 to the DC, but you make the item in 1/4 the tome)It's not a simple halving (ie +10 does not necessarily imply half time), but otherwise yes. The PH doesn't explicitly say so, but you can up the DC by as much as you feel comfortable, and the standard result * DC formula applies.