Telling Blow Clarificiation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Telling Blow Clarificiation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darth_Singe
08-28-07, 03:59 PM Okay, if a rogue with Telling Blow is flanking someone, and scores a crit, does he add his sneak attack damage twice? It seems to read that way.

However, I ruled that you can only apply precision based damage once, so the player didn't get to add it twice.

So, please clarify it for me.
wonlee76
08-28-07, 04:03 PM Sneak attack only once.

I read telling blow as adding a 3rd condition where sneak attack can be delivered (confirmed crits). So doubling up doesn't do anything. Just like flanking a flat footed target doesn't give you 2 sneak attacks, neither should flanking and getting a confirmed crit if you got the telling blow feat.
tarkin
08-28-07, 04:04 PM You did the right thing, for the wrong reason.

Telling Blow does not add a new category of attacks that duplicate Sneak Attacks.

Instead it simply adds one more category of situations that qualify for Sneak Attack/Skirmish.

It never matters how many different ways you qualify for it, you only get the sneak attack damage once.

Similarly, if I am invisible and flanking a flat footed opponent that is tied up, I only get Sneak Attack damage one time, not 4 times.
Mousse
08-28-07, 04:38 PM Tarkin has the right idea.
Darth_Singe
08-28-07, 10:16 PM Much Grooviness.

Thank you all for posting.
Anomen
08-29-07, 12:51 AM Here's a quesiton, though. . .Would you still have to be within the normal 30' of sneak attack range for this to apply?
Salla
08-29-07, 12:57 AM Here's a quesiton, though. . .Would you still have to be within the normal 30' of sneak attack range for this to apply?

Yes. All the limitations on Sneak Attack also apply.
Dheran
08-29-07, 04:33 AM Yes. All the limitations on Sneak Attack also apply. Well, that's certainly not the case. Sneak attack is normally limited to a target being flanked, or denied its DEX bonus to AC and being within 30'. The feat adds a third way to qualify for precision damage, and states that the skirmish/sneak damage is applied on any critical hit -- without any mention of the 30' range limit that normally only applies when the target is denied its DEX bonus to AC.

Your interpretation is a common one, Salla, but it requires giving the standard sneak attack rules greater weight than the feat that creates an exception to those normal rules:Benefit: When you score a critical hit against a target, you deal your skirmish or sneak attack damage in addition to the damage from your critical hit. Your critical multiplier applies only to your normal damage, not your skirmish or sneak attack damage. This benefit affects both melee and ranged attacks. The alternate interpretation is that Telling Blow overrides the normal rules and makes a critical hit a sufficient enabler for precision damage regardless of the range to the target.
Hsien
08-29-07, 10:03 AM True, but the 30' limitation is the most commonly accepted interpretation that I've seen on the forums.

My group uses a houserule for Telling Blow range:
30' or 1st range increment; whichever is greater.

We think that evens out the odd notion that a dagger thrower can take a -4 to hit at 30' but still get the sneak/skirmish damage but a longbow user at 40' feat has no penalty to hit but cannot get the sneak/skirmish.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth_Singe 08-28-07, 03:59 PM	Okay, if a rogue with Telling Blow is flanking someone, and scores a crit, does he add his sneak attack damage twice? It seems to read that way. However, I ruled that you can only apply precision based damage once, so the player didn't get to add it twice. So, please clarify it for me.
wonlee76 08-28-07, 04:03 PM	Sneak attack only once. I read telling blow as adding a 3rd condition where sneak attack can be delivered (confirmed crits). So doubling up doesn't do anything. Just like flanking a flat footed target doesn't give you 2 sneak attacks, neither should flanking and getting a confirmed crit if you got the telling blow feat.
tarkin 08-28-07, 04:04 PM	You did the right thing, for the wrong reason. Telling Blow does not add a new category of attacks that duplicate Sneak Attacks. Instead it simply adds one more category of situations that qualify for Sneak Attack/Skirmish. It never matters how many different ways you qualify for it, you only get the sneak attack damage once. Similarly, if I am invisible and flanking a flat footed opponent that is tied up, I only get Sneak Attack damage one time, not 4 times.
Mousse 08-28-07, 04:38 PM	Tarkin has the right idea.
Darth_Singe 08-28-07, 10:16 PM	Much Grooviness. Thank you all for posting.
Anomen 08-29-07, 12:51 AM	Here's a quesiton, though. . .Would you still have to be within the normal 30' of sneak attack range for this to apply?
Salla 08-29-07, 12:57 AM	Here's a quesiton, though. . .Would you still have to be within the normal 30' of sneak attack range for this to apply? Yes. All the limitations on Sneak Attack also apply.
Dheran 08-29-07, 04:33 AM	Yes. All the limitations on Sneak Attack also apply. Well, that's certainly not the case. Sneak attack is normally limited to a target being flanked, or denied its DEX bonus to AC and being within 30'. The feat adds a third way to qualify for precision damage, and states that the skirmish/sneak damage is applied on any critical hit -- without any mention of the 30' range limit that normally only applies when the target is denied its DEX bonus to AC. Your interpretation is a common one, Salla, but it requires giving the standard sneak attack rules greater weight than the feat that creates an exception to those normal rules:Benefit: When you score a critical hit against a target, you deal your skirmish or sneak attack damage in addition to the damage from your critical hit. Your critical multiplier applies only to your normal damage, not your skirmish or sneak attack damage. This benefit affects both melee and ranged attacks. The alternate interpretation is that Telling Blow overrides the normal rules and makes a critical hit a sufficient enabler for precision damage regardless of the range to the target.
Hsien 08-29-07, 10:03 AM	True, but the 30' limitation is the most commonly accepted interpretation that I've seen on the forums. My group uses a houserule for Telling Blow range: 30' or 1st range increment; whichever is greater. We think that evens out the odd notion that a dagger thrower can take a -4 to hit at 30' but still get the sneak/skirmish damage but a longbow user at 40' feat has no penalty to hit but cannot get the sneak/skirmish.