Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Empyrium 06-20-07, 08:51 AM	I'm a little confused as to what this does... well I have no idea what they mean actually...
Einvaldurinn_mikli 06-20-07, 08:56 AM	It lets you add your sneak attack damage on critical hits. What exactly confuses you?
Dalthbar 06-20-07, 09:05 AM	Yeah, the text is very straight forward. However, I'm curious about this scenario: You attack someone and your SA or Skirmish is triggered normally via those mechanics. Now, on that attack, you just happen to score a crit. Do you effectively add the SA or Skirmish damage twice? The feat states "you deal your skirmish or sneak attack damage in addition to the damage from your critical hit". This seems to me that this becomes "part of your crit" - which would be separate from the actual SA or Skirmish, which would get added on to the end of the attack per normal. Any input?
jaelis 06-20-07, 09:18 AM	No, you just score your SA damage once. Just like if you flanked a flat-footed opponent. Telling Blow just gives you an additional way to trigger SA, not any extra damage.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-20-07, 09:20 AM	Yeah, the text is very straight forward. However, I'm curious about this scenario: You attack someone and your SA or Skirmish is triggered normally via those mechanics. Now, on that attack, you just happen to score a crit. Do you effectively add the SA or Skirmish damage twice? The feat states "you deal your skirmish or sneak attack damage in addition to the damage from your critical hit". This seems to me that this becomes "part of your crit" - which would be separate from the actual SA or Skirmish, which would get added on to the end of the attack per normal. Any input? Only once. As others said before: this feat is just another way to trigger sneak attack.
Empyrium 06-20-07, 10:41 AM	Ahhh... I get it now <facepalms> what a morning...
TheDarkWolf 06-22-07, 12:05 AM	Edit: Nevermind what I had if you had read it already.. I am an idiot...
Meep326 06-22-07, 03:01 AM	Yeah, the text is very straight forward. However, I'm curious about this scenario: You attack someone and your SA or Skirmish is triggered normally via those mechanics. Now, on that attack, you just happen to score a crit. Do you effectively add the SA or Skirmish damage twice? The feat states "you deal your skirmish or sneak attack damage in addition to the damage from your critical hit". This seems to me that this becomes "part of your crit" - which would be separate from the actual SA or Skirmish, which would get added on to the end of the attack per normal. Any input? Yes, you deal your damage effectivly twice, now imagine if you had Imp. Skirmish and all that wonderfullness.
Bopple 06-22-07, 04:46 AM	You can just do your sneak-attack. You cannot do double-sneak-attack, no matter what.
sleepydeath 06-22-07, 05:55 AM	You can just do your sneak-attack. You cannot do double-sneak-attack, no matter what. You get sneak attack dmg, everytime you qualify for it, and telling blow gives you another possibility to qualify for sneak attack. there is no rule that prohibits you getting sneak attack dmg because the opponent is denied to his dex and another sneak attack dmg for scoring a critical hit with telling blow.
itwasntme 06-22-07, 06:31 AM	It States that if you Score a Crit hit that you can deal Your SA Damage to the target when it talks about the Criticol Damage its stateing that if you had an ability (Like Socking burst) That gos off on Criticol Attacks these go off as well (Like a normol Sneak Attack) and that your Criticol Hit Multiblyer (Like X2 or X3) Dose not count towerds the SA This Feat only allows Multibol New ways on how to Score a SA it will not let you make multibol SA Attacks on the same target at the same time I Relize that the Feat dose not state this however clouser examination on SA Lets you see that you cant SA More then once on any One Attack Another arguement is : Point to me where it States you CAN Add in multibol SA Attacks on a single Target with a Single Attack
Bopple 06-22-07, 08:14 AM	You get sneak attack dmg, everytime you qualify for it, and telling blow gives you another possibility to qualify for sneak attack. there is no rule that prohibits you getting sneak attack dmg because the opponent is denied to his dex and another sneak attack dmg for scoring a critical hit with telling blow. You don't do double-sneak-attack, if you flank a flat-footed target. You just do sneak-attack once. That's all. Telling Blow is no different.
Leilond 06-22-07, 08:19 AM	You get sneak attack dmg, everytime you qualify for it, and telling blow gives you another possibility to qualify for sneak attack. there is no rule that prohibits you getting sneak attack dmg because the opponent is denied to his dex and another sneak attack dmg for scoring a critical hit with telling blow. What? Do you get a sneak attack because your enemy is flat-footed and a sneak attack damage because your flanking? Come on! Telling blow simply give you another "condition" to qualify an attack for the sneak attack damage! Do the attack qualify? Yes => sneak attack damage Do the attack qualify? No => no sneak attack damage It cannot be applied more than one time, because of the definition of sneak attack itself
Meep326 06-22-07, 11:38 AM	Yes you can, you get sneak attack every time you qualifiy, multiple times per round if applicable. You can take a full attack then hide as part of the full round action at a -20. That's just qualified you for sneak attack on all hits, more if you crit and have telling blow. Telling blow is autonomus of the damage on the attack it qualifies for, you get it everytime you crit, reguardless of if it qualified to sneak attack the initially.
Hsien 06-22-07, 03:09 PM	This topic has been gone over several times. The FAQ indicates that regular Sneak Attack damage and Telling Blow do not stack. I think the confusion is in that people try and think of Sneak attack and Telling Blow as seperate entities as opposed to just two different ways of triggering Precision damage. Take a lvl 1 rogue, for simplicity ( maybe character is also lvl 6 fighter etc..) and only review the result for Precision damage. 1: Enemy qualifies for Sneak attack = 1d6 Precision based damage 2: Enemy does NOT qualify for Sneak attack, but you confirm a Critical = 1d6 Precision based damage triggered by Telling Blow feat 3: Enemy qualifies for Sneak attack, you also confirmed critical ( Telling Blow ) = 1d6 Precision based damage only. Do not get it multiple times for one attack. This guidance is further supported by the guidance for Manyshot and the Master Thrower's Palm Trick ( throw 2 daggers with one attack roll ). You only add one instance of Precision damage as you are only making one attack roll. 4: Multiple attack rolls, each one can potentially add it own seperate Precision damage; triggered by either qualified for Sneak or Telling Blow, but follows the above basic guideline for each individual attack. It helps me to think of it that way, I have a Rogue/Master Thrower and rely heavily on Telling Blow to trigger precision damage on full attacks.
sleepydeath 06-22-07, 03:14 PM	What? Do you get a sneak attack because your enemy is flat-footed and a sneak attack damage because your flanking? Come on! Telling blow simply give you another "condition" to qualify an attack for the sneak attack damage! Do the attack qualify? Yes => sneak attack damage Do the attack qualify? No => no sneak attack damage It cannot be applied more than one time, because of the definition of sneak attack itself epic fail the telling blow feat states you deal "sneak attack damage" in addition to your critical hit damage and if you read your players handbook you will recognize the part of sneak attack which says "Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied." "sneak attack dmg" is not the same as a "sneak attack". There is no point arguing when its written that you get bonus sneak attack DAMAGE on a critical hit with the telling blow feat. I doenst matter if you scored a critical hit on your sneak ATTACK.
stoicfaux 06-22-07, 06:16 PM	Yes you can, you get sneak attack every time you qualifiy, multiple times per round if applicable. You can take a full attack then hide as part of the full round action at a -20. That's just qualified you for sneak attack on all hits, more if you crit and have telling blow. Telling blow is autonomus of the damage on the attack it qualifies for, you get it everytime you crit, reguardless of if it qualified to sneak attack the initially. Named bonuses do not stack. Therefore you cannot stack 'sneak attack damage' with 'sneak attack damage.' On a side note, Hide is normally part of a move action. If you're using a full round action to get multiple attacks, how are you taking a move action to hide? Never mind that it's hard to hide when you're beating on someone. Hide isn't Greater Invisibility, you know.
Dheran 06-23-07, 02:49 AM	On a side note, Hide is normally part of a move action. If you're using a full round action to get multiple attacks, how are you taking a move action to hide? You're misremembering the skill description:Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. Please note that a 5' step takes you out of your square and thus is movement. Hide doesn't require a move action, or even any sort of movement (although that's the normal case). Never mind that it's hard to hide when you're beating on someone. Hard, but not actually impossible. You don't take a penalty to Hide if you make a 5' adjustment. But if you've got a high Hide skill, you can try to do so as part of an attack despite the difficulty penalty. It’s practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.
runestar 06-23-07, 03:01 AM	You get sneak attack dmg, everytime you qualify for it, and telling blow gives you another possibility to qualify for sneak attack. there is no rule that prohibits you getting sneak attack dmg because the opponent is denied to his dex and another sneak attack dmg for scoring a critical hit with telling blow. Even if you manage to catch a foe flat footed, flank him and score a crit, you still deal sneak attack damage only once. You are allowed to choose only one of the qualifying criteria. Thus, you can opt to deal sneak attack damage because you were flanking him, because you caught him flat footed, or because you scored a crit. It does not make sense that you are somehow suddenly able to strike a foe in a vital spot thrice from a single blow just because he meets all 3 criteria. 1 hit is still 1 hit, regardless of how vulnerable he is, and thus, sneak attack would still apply once once per hit. Regardless of what you think, the FAQ has clarified this. Telling blow is only meant to add an extra condition for dealing sneak attack damage. It was never meant to compound the damage. Put it down to ambiguous wording, crappy literacy skills, RAI or RAW or whatever. The intent of the designers is plain and clear for all of us to see. Why even bother continue playing with words and trying to twist them to produce the interpretation which fits the way you think it should work when the Sage has already clarified it beyond reasonable doubt?:confused: