The relationship between Fortitude (or Will) and Concentration... [Archive] - Wizards Community

The relationship between Fortitude (or Will) and Concentration... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rinian2
02-16-08, 06:47 AM I was just thinking about something and I wanted to... I don't know... hear what people thought about it.

Alright, under Fortitude Saves in the Player's Handbook it says:These saves measure your ability to stand up to physical punishment or attacks against your vitality and healthIn the same book it says about Will Saves:These saves reflect you resistance to mental influence as well as many magical effects.And it describes the Concentration skill as:You are particularly good at focusing your mind.Some of the things it mentions as reasons to make a Concentration check appear to be things that match quite nicely with the reasons to make Fortitude or Will Saves, ie taking damage or being distracted by a nondamaging spell.

So, here is my unformed idea... would be it feasible or reasonable to have a feat that allowed a character's base Fortitude or Will Save to be added to their Concentration checks?
Kouk
02-16-08, 06:52 AM I will say no.

There are some feats and items which let you make checks in place of Saves though.
Mr_Teapot
02-16-08, 10:10 AM So, here is my unformed idea... would be it feasible or reasonable to have a feat that allowed a character's base Fortitude or Will Save to be added to their Concentration checks?

Let's compare it to the most comparable feat. Skill Focus: Concentration gives +3 to Concentration checks. Nearly every spellcaster class has a good Will save, which means that at first level they get +2 to Will saves and and from 2nd level at least +3. By 20th level, a single feat would be giving +12 to a very important skill (possibly the most important for spellcasters).

If you think guaranteeing that spellcasters always make their Concentration is a balanced feat, then go right ahead. That says to me "unreasonable feat" though I'm sure there is a loophole somewhere giving a better return for a feat.
StruckingFuggle
02-16-08, 12:55 PM If you think guaranteeing that spellcasters always make their Concentration is a balanced feat, then go right ahead.

Usually by the time it becomes a +12 to Concentration checks, they're likely automatically succeeding the basic checks to at least cast defensively anyway, and it should be a bugger of a challenge to interrupt their spellcasting, too.
Jaxgaret
02-17-08, 03:16 AM I will say no.

There are some feats and items which let you make checks in place of Saves though.

Agreed.

A feat that allows a character to add their Fort or Will save to the d20 roll instead of their Concentration skill modifier would be fine.
Shadowfax7
02-17-08, 08:19 AM Note that Jaxgaret said "instead of", not added to. Added to would be too powerful.

However, IMO "instead of" would be a weak feat. The ability to put ranks into the Concentration skill as a class skill far outweighs the max +12 you can get from either your base save bonus to Fort or Will.

In fact with Concentration as a cross-class skill, this feat would basically even out with 44 skill points providing 11 ranks pre-epic.
Jaxgaret
02-17-08, 03:11 PM Note that Jaxgaret said "instead of", not added to.

Correct.

However, IMO "instead of" would be a weak feat. The ability to put ranks into the Concentration skill as a class skill far outweighs the max +12 you can get from either your base save bonus to Fort or Will.

I didn't say "base Will or Fort save", I said "Will or Fort save", including all save bonuses.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rinian2 02-16-08, 06:47 AM	I was just thinking about something and I wanted to... I don't know... hear what people thought about it. Alright, under Fortitude Saves in the Player's Handbook it says:These saves measure your ability to stand up to physical punishment or attacks against your vitality and healthIn the same book it says about Will Saves:These saves reflect you resistance to mental influence as well as many magical effects.And it describes the Concentration skill as:You are particularly good at focusing your mind.Some of the things it mentions as reasons to make a Concentration check appear to be things that match quite nicely with the reasons to make Fortitude or Will Saves, ie taking damage or being distracted by a nondamaging spell. So, here is my unformed idea... would be it feasible or reasonable to have a feat that allowed a character's base Fortitude or Will Save to be added to their Concentration checks?
Kouk 02-16-08, 06:52 AM	I will say no. There are some feats and items which let you make checks in place of Saves though.
Mr_Teapot 02-16-08, 10:10 AM	So, here is my unformed idea... would be it feasible or reasonable to have a feat that allowed a character's base Fortitude or Will Save to be added to their Concentration checks? Let's compare it to the most comparable feat. Skill Focus: Concentration gives +3 to Concentration checks. Nearly every spellcaster class has a good Will save, which means that at first level they get +2 to Will saves and and from 2nd level at least +3. By 20th level, a single feat would be giving +12 to a very important skill (possibly the most important for spellcasters). If you think guaranteeing that spellcasters always make their Concentration is a balanced feat, then go right ahead. That says to me "unreasonable feat" though I'm sure there is a loophole somewhere giving a better return for a feat.
StruckingFuggle 02-16-08, 12:55 PM	If you think guaranteeing that spellcasters always make their Concentration is a balanced feat, then go right ahead. Usually by the time it becomes a +12 to Concentration checks, they're likely automatically succeeding the basic checks to at least cast defensively anyway, and it should be a bugger of a challenge to interrupt their spellcasting, too.
Jaxgaret 02-17-08, 03:16 AM	I will say no. There are some feats and items which let you make checks in place of Saves though. Agreed. A feat that allows a character to add their Fort or Will save to the d20 roll instead of their Concentration skill modifier would be fine.
Shadowfax7 02-17-08, 08:19 AM	Note that Jaxgaret said "instead of", not added to. Added to would be too powerful. However, IMO "instead of" would be a weak feat. The ability to put ranks into the Concentration skill as a class skill far outweighs the max +12 you can get from either your base save bonus to Fort or Will. In fact with Concentration as a cross-class skill, this feat would basically even out with 44 skill points providing 11 ranks pre-epic.
Jaxgaret 02-17-08, 03:11 PM	Note that Jaxgaret said "instead of", not added to. Correct. However, IMO "instead of" would be a weak feat. The ability to put ranks into the Concentration skill as a class skill far outweighs the max +12 you can get from either your base save bonus to Fort or Will. I didn't say "base Will or Fort save", I said "Will or Fort save", including all save bonuses.