The reserve feats from complete mage? [Archive] - Wizards Community

The reserve feats from complete mage? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Citadel97501
07-04-07, 07:22 PM What are your opinions on the reserve spell feats from Complete Mage. I was thinking of taking a few in the next game I play.

I also think they would be an interesting idea for a campaign setting, in which mages are only from a few blood lines and that each bloodline has one or more of those feats as a requirement.
Thiez
07-04-07, 07:31 PM Isn't the whole point of a bloodline that you don't have to do anything except being born to be part of one? If you have a reserve feat as a requirement to become part of a bloodline... that campaign setting must either have very interesting means of reproduction, or timetravel...

For most reserve feats you need to be better than a first level mage. I think this bloodline thing is a bad idea.
Neutronium_Dragon
07-04-07, 07:45 PM The reserve feats aren't generally all that impressive in practice. Their actual output is rather low, usually lower than what you could accomplish with the spells which are available to you. If you're having a persistent problem with running out of spells (which is only likely to happen often at low level) then it might be worthwhile to pick one up, but no more than one.
Citadel97501
07-04-07, 08:06 PM To the first poster, I understand what you mean by the issues with the requirement of feats for the mage, what I was going to do was most likely adjust the way the system works for feats and simply at level 3 instead of getting a new feat you would get the feat in question, or at level 5 instead if the level requirement was higher.

So Neutronium Dragon, you don't believe that these feats pay out? I personally like the Force version that allows you to fire off shards of force with no save at a target, (Can't remember the name off hand)?

The ability to have some attack magic and still keep alot of memorized utility spells is the main use of that feat.

If you take as many of these feats as possible you will basically play with the infinite spells of a warlock but alot more versatility. Then again this is my view on the matter and I could be wrong.
The_Unseen_Illusion
07-04-07, 08:27 PM Haha, if you take Heighten Spell and Storm Bolt Reserve Feat, it's Xd6 spell level without an attack roll, SR or Saving Throw. Just kinda fun to play with
Empiro
07-04-07, 10:12 PM Dimensional Jaunt is pretty ridiculous from mid to high levels. It basically eliminates the only weakness of a wizard (grappling). Since it's a supernatural ability, you don't even need to worry about using it if you're pinned or silenced, and you don't have to worry about making a tough concentration check.

At very high levels, it's less useful because every wizard buys a ring of freedom, but still.
Fallenangel359
07-05-07, 12:51 AM there is that one that gives temp HP as a swift action usable every round :P

That one is rediculous for a swiftblade stalwart battlesorceror with the spellshield variant...

Just makes it a wee bit hard to damage you.
Hsien
07-05-07, 10:37 AM Haha, if you take Heighten Spell and Storm Bolt Reserve Feat, it's Xd6 spell level without an attack roll, SR or Saving Throw. Just kinda fun to play with

Check out the "Help" response ( answer Id 1116 ) regarding Storm Bolt.

Message
Should the Storm Bolt feat from Complete Mage allow a saving throw?

Answer
""Not all reserve feats allow a saving throw, but Storm Bolt should have one. Add this after the second sentence of the Benefit entry of the feat:

"A successful Reflex saves halves the damage."

This has been approved by the good folks that make the game and will be covered in an errata at some point in the future. Until then, we advise that you apply this fix to the Storm Bolt feat.""
Neutronium_Dragon
07-05-07, 10:53 AM Citadel: The primary problem, at least with the attack/damage ones, is that they're very weak in their effects compared to what you could be doing with the spell slot(s) you're tying up to power them, and often even rather weak compared to lower level spell slots.

This becomes more and more pronounced at higher level; you're tying up a 9th level slot to be able to ping things with a 9d6 damage attack, when the 9th level slot would be absurdly more effective if used directly and even your 3rd level spell slots (which you're never going to be short of in practice at that point) will do 10d6 over a much larger area - and that's assuming that you don't just pick up a wand for when you really want to ping opponents with relatively low amounts of damage for your current level.

Couple this with the fact that direct damage of the xd6/level variety has a serious falloff problem as character/enemy levels increase, rendering it one of the least effective things that a high level wizard can do, and the reserve feat ends up being a largely cosmetic thing rather than useful.

At low level, when you might actually run out of spell slots, not be able to afford a wand or other backup, and xd6/damage still has some use, those reserve feats can still be useful. At high level it's mainly a question of whether any peripheral benefit synergizes with what you're trying to do.

Reserve feats which do something other than direct damage by providing utility effects (like the teleporation possibility mentioned above) might see more use, though. If you're really keen on reserve feats then they're probably a better option to look at - although be careful not to tie up too many of your higher level spell slots, since using them is generally what gets the job done.
The_Unseen_Illusion
07-06-07, 03:52 AM Check out the "Help" response ( answer Id 1116 ) regarding Storm Bolt.

Message
Should the Storm Bolt feat from Complete Mage allow a saving throw?

Answer
""Not all reserve feats allow a saving throw, but Storm Bolt should have one. Add this after the second sentence of the Benefit entry of the feat:

"A successful Reflex saves halves the damage."

This has been approved by the good folks that make the game and will be covered in an errata at some point in the future. Until then, we advise that you apply this fix to the Storm Bolt feat.""

Xd6 damage isn't a lot of damage.... man your killing my fun....
Zelin
07-06-07, 10:28 AM Reserve feats are fun when you're killing the henchman's henchman.
Thiez
07-06-07, 11:00 AM Reserve feats are fun when you're killing the henchman's henchman.

QFT
Hsien
07-06-07, 02:53 PM Xd6 damage isn't a lot of damage.... man your killing my fun....

This topic has come up a couple times, I gave my experience of why my group demanded a saving throw for this as you don't want a DM to use it on you.

Kobolds, smart defensive tactics and with infinate d6's for damage...no characters survived, once the cleric was down it was only a matter of time.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Citadel97501 07-04-07, 07:22 PM	What are your opinions on the reserve spell feats from Complete Mage. I was thinking of taking a few in the next game I play. I also think they would be an interesting idea for a campaign setting, in which mages are only from a few blood lines and that each bloodline has one or more of those feats as a requirement.
Thiez 07-04-07, 07:31 PM	Isn't the whole point of a bloodline that you don't have to do anything except being born to be part of one? If you have a reserve feat as a requirement to become part of a bloodline... that campaign setting must either have very interesting means of reproduction, or timetravel... For most reserve feats you need to be better than a first level mage. I think this bloodline thing is a bad idea.
Neutronium_Dragon 07-04-07, 07:45 PM	The reserve feats aren't generally all that impressive in practice. Their actual output is rather low, usually lower than what you could accomplish with the spells which are available to you. If you're having a persistent problem with running out of spells (which is only likely to happen often at low level) then it might be worthwhile to pick one up, but no more than one.
Citadel97501 07-04-07, 08:06 PM	To the first poster, I understand what you mean by the issues with the requirement of feats for the mage, what I was going to do was most likely adjust the way the system works for feats and simply at level 3 instead of getting a new feat you would get the feat in question, or at level 5 instead if the level requirement was higher. So Neutronium Dragon, you don't believe that these feats pay out? I personally like the Force version that allows you to fire off shards of force with no save at a target, (Can't remember the name off hand)? The ability to have some attack magic and still keep alot of memorized utility spells is the main use of that feat. If you take as many of these feats as possible you will basically play with the infinite spells of a warlock but alot more versatility. Then again this is my view on the matter and I could be wrong.
The_Unseen_Illusion 07-04-07, 08:27 PM	Haha, if you take Heighten Spell and Storm Bolt Reserve Feat, it's Xd6 spell level without an attack roll, SR or Saving Throw. Just kinda fun to play with
Empiro 07-04-07, 10:12 PM	Dimensional Jaunt is pretty ridiculous from mid to high levels. It basically eliminates the only weakness of a wizard (grappling). Since it's a supernatural ability, you don't even need to worry about using it if you're pinned or silenced, and you don't have to worry about making a tough concentration check. At very high levels, it's less useful because every wizard buys a ring of freedom, but still.
Fallenangel359 07-05-07, 12:51 AM	there is that one that gives temp HP as a swift action usable every round :P That one is rediculous for a swiftblade stalwart battlesorceror with the spellshield variant... Just makes it a wee bit hard to damage you.
Hsien 07-05-07, 10:37 AM	Haha, if you take Heighten Spell and Storm Bolt Reserve Feat, it's Xd6 spell level without an attack roll, SR or Saving Throw. Just kinda fun to play with Check out the "Help" response ( answer Id 1116 ) regarding Storm Bolt. Message Should the Storm Bolt feat from Complete Mage allow a saving throw? Answer ""Not all reserve feats allow a saving throw, but Storm Bolt should have one. Add this after the second sentence of the Benefit entry of the feat: "A successful Reflex saves halves the damage." This has been approved by the good folks that make the game and will be covered in an errata at some point in the future. Until then, we advise that you apply this fix to the Storm Bolt feat.""
Neutronium_Dragon 07-05-07, 10:53 AM	Citadel: The primary problem, at least with the attack/damage ones, is that they're very weak in their effects compared to what you could be doing with the spell slot(s) you're tying up to power them, and often even rather weak compared to lower level spell slots. This becomes more and more pronounced at higher level; you're tying up a 9th level slot to be able to ping things with a 9d6 damage attack, when the 9th level slot would be absurdly more effective if used directly and even your 3rd level spell slots (which you're never going to be short of in practice at that point) will do 10d6 over a much larger area - and that's assuming that you don't just pick up a wand for when you really want to ping opponents with relatively low amounts of damage for your current level. Couple this with the fact that direct damage of the xd6/level variety has a serious falloff problem as character/enemy levels increase, rendering it one of the least effective things that a high level wizard can do, and the reserve feat ends up being a largely cosmetic thing rather than useful. At low level, when you might actually run out of spell slots, not be able to afford a wand or other backup, and xd6/damage still has some use, those reserve feats can still be useful. At high level it's mainly a question of whether any peripheral benefit synergizes with what you're trying to do. Reserve feats which do something other than direct damage by providing utility effects (like the teleporation possibility mentioned above) might see more use, though. If you're really keen on reserve feats then they're probably a better option to look at - although be careful not to tie up too many of your higher level spell slots, since using them is generally what gets the job done.
The_Unseen_Illusion 07-06-07, 03:52 AM	Check out the "Help" response ( answer Id 1116 ) regarding Storm Bolt. Message Should the Storm Bolt feat from Complete Mage allow a saving throw? Answer ""Not all reserve feats allow a saving throw, but Storm Bolt should have one. Add this after the second sentence of the Benefit entry of the feat: "A successful Reflex saves halves the damage." This has been approved by the good folks that make the game and will be covered in an errata at some point in the future. Until then, we advise that you apply this fix to the Storm Bolt feat."" Xd6 damage isn't a lot of damage.... man your killing my fun....
Zelin 07-06-07, 10:28 AM	Reserve feats are fun when you're killing the henchman's henchman.
Thiez 07-06-07, 11:00 AM	Reserve feats are fun when you're killing the henchman's henchman. QFT
Hsien 07-06-07, 02:53 PM	Xd6 damage isn't a lot of damage.... man your killing my fun.... This topic has come up a couple times, I gave my experience of why my group demanded a saving throw for this as you don't want a DM to use it on you. Kobolds, smart defensive tactics and with infinate d6's for damage...no characters survived, once the cleric was down it was only a matter of time.