To Many Item Creation Feats! [Archive] - Wizards Community

To Many Item Creation Feats! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malcadon
06-03-07, 05:59 AM You know what I hate?

Item creation feats!

Why do we need a feat just to make a magic rings, or weapons & armor, or wands & staffs, and so on. I think they need a all in one feat called: Create Magic Item.

To get this feat, you need be a spell-caster of high-level (like 10 or something), and have at least one craft skill. To use this feat, you use any craft skill you have to make said magic item (just make a Craft check). So, if you need to make a magic ring, then use Craft (jewelery).

I use such a house-rule in my own game. As for scrolls, well any one can read and write on one! I count potions as an alchemic item.
Sylvaroth
06-03-07, 07:31 AM Something like this?

Item Creation Feat Prerequisite Craft Skill
Scribe Scroll CL 1st Scripture

Brew Potion CL 3rd Alchemy

Craft Wondrous Item CL 3rd Varies

Craft Magic Arms and Armor CL 5th Armorsmithing
Bowmaking
Weaponsmithing

Craft Wand CL 5th Woodworking

Craft Rod CL 9th Woodworking

Craft Staff CL 12th Woodworking

Forge Ring CL 12th Jewellery

Craft Construct Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Varies
Craft Wondrous Item

How many ranks in the appropriate Craft skills are required? Do you need Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana, religion, the planes) ranks?
zzo38
06-03-07, 09:35 AM .......
.....As for scrolls, well any one can read and write on one!........

No, not anyone can write magical scrolls, not everyone understands magical scrolls, but a wizard can because a wizard can write in a spellbook, of course the wizard can write a scroll as well, but other people don't.
Lecen_of_Mitran
06-03-07, 10:25 AM Yeah, the OP is kinf of right, indeed.

A wizard taking the item creation feats wouldn´t have the chance to take any other kind of feat, so, he would be a "crafter" and that´s it.

Maybe, we should have indeed only one feat, but instead of needing certain skills, it would be something like that:

"Create Magic Item - at 5 lvl, you can create magic weapons and armors, at 12 lvl, you can create rings, etc..."
Thunder Dragonbane
06-03-07, 11:12 AM I think that combining the ICF might be a good idea. Like someone said if you start taking them you can almost do nothing else in game.
Witch
06-03-07, 11:34 AM That's because people aren't expected to be able to create all kinds of items.
Malcadon
06-05-07, 12:37 AM I dont see you need to be at certain levels to make different things. I dont see any different between a wand, a rod, or a staff. Or, how a ring do not count as Wondrous/Miscellaneous item, seeing how Wondrous Items include a mix of jewellery.

As for Scribe Scroll, I think is retarded that you need to be a wizard to copy a spell on a scroll (or even to waste XP on it). But then again, the magic system in this game is retarded! Spell get erased form your head after casting it. Only to have to re-memorize them the next day! And you can ONLY read a spell with a Read Magic spell. I know spells are in a code, so who thinks a wizard needs Decipher Script as a class skill.

I think the whole system needs an over-haul. Its dated like the THAC0!
Sylvaroth
06-05-07, 02:43 AM Well if just everybody could create and use scrolls, there was no need for UMD, was there?

Basically, a scroll is as much a simple piece of paper with some weird scribbling, as an apparatus of the crab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#apparatusoftheCrab) is a simple barrel.
They are magic items, so a scroll is a little more than a stained piece of paper.
The arcane or divine symbols contain magical energy (else you wouldn't get a glow by casting detect magic on a scroll).
So, no, you cannot give a scroll of fireball to a scribe to copy it a few times.

On the topic of CWI as a substitute for other IC feats, however, I agree. You might find this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060602a) of interest.
You might also llike to take a look at Arcana Evolved. It has replaced the conventional IC-feats with Craft Charged Item, Craft Constant Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Single-Use Item, Craft Spell-Completion Item.
Lixith
06-05-07, 06:51 PM There should be about 3, max, IMO. Combine rods, staves, and wands. Combine Rings, arms & armor, and wonderous items. Combine scrolls and potions. I prob left something out, but just throw it in somewhere.
InkBlot
06-05-07, 11:34 PM It's either Unearthed Arcana or Arcana Unearthed (I swear they did that on purpose!) that rolls the craft feats together based on the activation method of the items they create. There's Craft Spell Trigger Item, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Use Activated Item, and Craft Continuous Item. Or something like that. I think command word items are lumped under Craft Use Activated, and constructs got lumped under Craft Continuous. Anyway, that seems like a good way to go.

If you didn't want to completely bite off UA/AU, you could do it like this:

Craft Wands And Staves: Wands, staves, and any other spell trigger item.
Craft Scrolls: Scrolls, and any other spell completion item (are there any?)
Craft Wondrous Items: Rings and rods are reclassified as kinds of wondrous items.
Craft Arms And Armour: Unchanged

Constructs would require different feats depending on how they are made. Most would require Craft Arms And Armour. Some would require Craft Wondrous Items. A few would require both, or some other feat or combination of feats.
Vaalingrade Ashland
06-06-07, 12:21 AM Craft Charged Item: Wands, Staves, Scrolls
Craft Wonderous: Wonderous, Rings, Rods
Craft Armaments: Weapons and Armor
Sylvaroth
06-06-07, 02:35 AM You might also llike to take a look at Arcana Evolved. It has replaced the conventional IC-feats with Craft Charged Item, Craft Constant Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Single-Use Item, Craft Spell-Completion Item.
Seems quite decent to me. Those five IC-feats reduce the total number by more than one-half.
AllisterH
06-06-07, 09:28 AM You do realize by combining too many item creation feats into one, you're actually increasing the power of classes that ALREADY are at the top of the food chain?

3 is way to little IMO especially since how some items work are distinctly different.

However, the current breakdown is somewhat haphazard. Ed: I want to create a item with 3 charges of Wish. I could use either Craft Staff, Forge Ring or Craft Wondrous. The Arcane Evolved method makes the most sense in that each item clearly has a certain feat and you don't get any shenanigans with the pricing.

Craft Charged Item -> Staff and Wand
Craft Constant Item -> Rod, Rings and permanent items
Craft Single Use -> Potions and things like Feather Tokens
Craft Spell Completion -> scrolls.

Now this breakdown makes sense.
gotbrain
06-06-07, 10:01 AM Agreed. And why would i want to wait until 12th level and waste another feat on forge ring when i can make boots of invisibility or a cloak of invisibility at level 3??

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malcadon 06-03-07, 05:59 AM	You know what I hate? Item creation feats! Why do we need a feat just to make a magic rings, or weapons & armor, or wands & staffs, and so on. I think they need a all in one feat called: Create Magic Item. To get this feat, you need be a spell-caster of high-level (like 10 or something), and have at least one craft skill. To use this feat, you use any craft skill you have to make said magic item (just make a Craft check). So, if you need to make a magic ring, then use Craft (jewelery). I use such a house-rule in my own game. As for scrolls, well any one can read and write on one! I count potions as an alchemic item.
Sylvaroth 06-03-07, 07:31 AM	Something like this? Item Creation Feat Prerequisite Craft Skill Scribe Scroll CL 1st Scripture Brew Potion CL 3rd Alchemy Craft Wondrous Item CL 3rd Varies Craft Magic Arms and Armor CL 5th Armorsmithing Bowmaking Weaponsmithing Craft Wand CL 5th Woodworking Craft Rod CL 9th Woodworking Craft Staff CL 12th Woodworking Forge Ring CL 12th Jewellery Craft Construct Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Varies Craft Wondrous Item How many ranks in the appropriate Craft skills are required? Do you need Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana, religion, the planes) ranks?
zzo38 06-03-07, 09:35 AM	....... .....As for scrolls, well any one can read and write on one!........ No, not anyone can write magical scrolls, not everyone understands magical scrolls, but a wizard can because a wizard can write in a spellbook, of course the wizard can write a scroll as well, but other people don't.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-03-07, 10:25 AM	Yeah, the OP is kinf of right, indeed. A wizard taking the item creation feats wouldn´t have the chance to take any other kind of feat, so, he would be a "crafter" and that´s it. Maybe, we should have indeed only one feat, but instead of needing certain skills, it would be something like that: "Create Magic Item - at 5 lvl, you can create magic weapons and armors, at 12 lvl, you can create rings, etc..."
Thunder Dragonbane 06-03-07, 11:12 AM	I think that combining the ICF might be a good idea. Like someone said if you start taking them you can almost do nothing else in game.
Witch 06-03-07, 11:34 AM	That's because people aren't expected to be able to create all kinds of items.
Malcadon 06-05-07, 12:37 AM	I dont see you need to be at certain levels to make different things. I dont see any different between a wand, a rod, or a staff. Or, how a ring do not count as Wondrous/Miscellaneous item, seeing how Wondrous Items include a mix of jewellery. As for Scribe Scroll, I think is retarded that you need to be a wizard to copy a spell on a scroll (or even to waste XP on it). But then again, the magic system in this game is retarded! Spell get erased form your head after casting it. Only to have to re-memorize them the next day! And you can ONLY read a spell with a Read Magic spell. I know spells are in a code, so who thinks a wizard needs Decipher Script as a class skill. I think the whole system needs an over-haul. Its dated like the THAC0!
Sylvaroth 06-05-07, 02:43 AM	Well if just everybody could create and use scrolls, there was no need for UMD, was there? Basically, a scroll is as much a simple piece of paper with some weird scribbling, as an apparatus of the crab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#apparatusoftheCrab) is a simple barrel. They are magic items, so a scroll is a little more than a stained piece of paper. The arcane or divine symbols contain magical energy (else you wouldn't get a glow by casting detect magic on a scroll). So, no, you cannot give a scroll of fireball to a scribe to copy it a few times. On the topic of CWI as a substitute for other IC feats, however, I agree. You might find this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060602a) of interest. You might also llike to take a look at Arcana Evolved. It has replaced the conventional IC-feats with Craft Charged Item, Craft Constant Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Single-Use Item, Craft Spell-Completion Item.
Lixith 06-05-07, 06:51 PM	There should be about 3, max, IMO. Combine rods, staves, and wands. Combine Rings, arms & armor, and wonderous items. Combine scrolls and potions. I prob left something out, but just throw it in somewhere.
InkBlot 06-05-07, 11:34 PM	It's either Unearthed Arcana or Arcana Unearthed (I swear they did that on purpose!) that rolls the craft feats together based on the activation method of the items they create. There's Craft Spell Trigger Item, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Use Activated Item, and Craft Continuous Item. Or something like that. I think command word items are lumped under Craft Use Activated, and constructs got lumped under Craft Continuous. Anyway, that seems like a good way to go. If you didn't want to completely bite off UA/AU, you could do it like this: Craft Wands And Staves: Wands, staves, and any other spell trigger item. Craft Scrolls: Scrolls, and any other spell completion item (are there any?) Craft Wondrous Items: Rings and rods are reclassified as kinds of wondrous items. Craft Arms And Armour: Unchanged Constructs would require different feats depending on how they are made. Most would require Craft Arms And Armour. Some would require Craft Wondrous Items. A few would require both, or some other feat or combination of feats.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-06-07, 12:21 AM	Craft Charged Item: Wands, Staves, Scrolls Craft Wonderous: Wonderous, Rings, Rods Craft Armaments: Weapons and Armor
Sylvaroth 06-06-07, 02:35 AM	You might also llike to take a look at Arcana Evolved. It has replaced the conventional IC-feats with Craft Charged Item, Craft Constant Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Single-Use Item, Craft Spell-Completion Item. Seems quite decent to me. Those five IC-feats reduce the total number by more than one-half.
AllisterH 06-06-07, 09:28 AM	You do realize by combining too many item creation feats into one, you're actually increasing the power of classes that ALREADY are at the top of the food chain? 3 is way to little IMO especially since how some items work are distinctly different. However, the current breakdown is somewhat haphazard. Ed: I want to create a item with 3 charges of Wish. I could use either Craft Staff, Forge Ring or Craft Wondrous. The Arcane Evolved method makes the most sense in that each item clearly has a certain feat and you don't get any shenanigans with the pricing. Craft Charged Item -> Staff and Wand Craft Constant Item -> Rod, Rings and permanent items Craft Single Use -> Potions and things like Feather Tokens Craft Spell Completion -> scrolls. Now this breakdown makes sense.
gotbrain 06-06-07, 10:01 AM	Agreed. And why would i want to wait until 12th level and waste another feat on forge ring when i can make boots of invisibility or a cloak of invisibility at level 3??