Post/Author/DateTime	Post
twbruhn 06-24-07, 12:25 AM	Iron Heart Surge says - Your fighting spirit, dedication, and training allow you to overcome almost anything to defeat your enemies. When you use this maneuver, select one spell, effect or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds. The effect ends immediately. In our gaming group, we were having a debate on whether this maneuver would work vs. charms, compulsions or dominiation. I say that the spirit and letter of the feat allows the PC to defeat charms, compulsions and/or dominiation, what say you?
souldragon_420 06-24-07, 12:28 AM	I say yes to anything short of dominate as with it your totally under the control of the caster and unable to actions of your own accord but charms your just friendly but still under control of your actions so you could make the standard action to break it.
runestar 06-24-07, 12:35 AM	spirit of the feat - it should (to some extent), IMO. letter of the law - it depends. You need to move to activate IHS, as with any maneuver. It would not work on domination, since you cannot move (and your foe is unlikely to compel you to use IHS to remove your own dominate spell). Charm is more tricky. I suppose if you could somehow realize that you are under the influence of a charm spell, you could attempt to remove it, but the process seems like wonky. Since if you failed the will save of the charm spell, you won't know that you are being charmed. That is why it is so effective. Compulsions are fairly broad. Spells like hold person/monster naturally cannot be removed, since you cannot move. Suggestion is trickier, since your foe did not suggest that you use IHS on yourself either. I would say no.
ravenshrike 06-24-07, 10:14 AM	It would not work on domination, since you cannot move (and your foe is unlikely to compel you to use IHS to remove your own dominate spell). Actually, unless the person dominating you explicitly tells you to stand still, you can move on your own. Just generally not that useful.
runestar 06-24-07, 10:24 AM	Actually, unless the person dominating you explicitly tells you to stand still, you can move on your own. Just generally not that useful. One would hope... Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject’s behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description). It would take for a very liberal interpretation to rule that using IHS was necessary for day-to-day survival ...:P
twbruhn 06-24-07, 12:29 PM	And yet, someone dug this out of the Dear Sage: Q: Dear Sage, What exactly can or can’t iron heart surge (Tome of Battle p68) remove? --Franco A: Instantaneous effects can’t be removed by iron heart surge. However, any effect with a duration of 1 or more rounds, including permanent-duration spells or effects, may be removed by iron heart surge, nor does iron heart surge restore damage or ability drain. Iron heart surge doesn’t replace lost levels (though it would remove any negative levels resulting from a single spell or effect). It would neutralize a single poison coursing through your system, or a single disease that afflicted you. So, it still remains unclear. This may well be a job for CS!
souldragon_420 06-24-07, 12:34 PM	No CS's decision is widely seen as overpower and to general a ruling as it lets you end even like Duration AoE spells. With the way CS ruled it you could IHS out an anti-magic feild.
dolphin49 06-24-07, 01:02 PM	My Dm has been thinking the same thing about Iron heart surge so he decided to make IHS an immediate action so anything that dosent allow you to take actions u can use an immediate action to stop the effect before it takes complete control of you
Ryuoch 06-24-07, 01:33 PM	In our gaming group, we were having a debate on whether this maneuver would work vs. charms, compulsions or dominiation. Well for charms and compulsions I would say yes IF you can somehow realize you’re under a charm or compulsion and that can be a big IF. As for Dominations once you finish you last command do you stand their like a zombie or are you free to do what you want until you get your next command? If it’s the former your beat if it’s the latter I can’t see why you would not be able to use IHS.
D.A.Dervish 06-25-07, 09:58 AM	Time to get into the routine of using IHS ever 10-15 minutes, just in case you get charmed without realizing it. I might also add that from a balance point of view, I'm pretty okay with IHS not removing effects that prevent actions. It's still a very, very handy maneuver in a lot of situations.
MageWeasel 06-25-07, 02:02 PM	The maneuver removes conditions. Meaning if it is on the condition summery in the phb then it can be removed. If not, then no.
runestar 06-25-07, 10:13 PM	The maneuver removes conditions. Meaning if it is on the condition summery in the phb then it can be removed. If not, then no. It removes a spell, effect or condition. Meaning just about everything.:P
ravenshrike 06-26-07, 12:33 AM	It removes a spell, effect or condition. Meaning just about everything.:P Except spells, effects, and conditions which disallow movement.
twbruhn 06-26-07, 06:39 PM	I didn't read that exception.
MageWeasel 06-27-07, 02:24 AM	It removes a spell, effect or condition. Meaning just about everything.:P Ah, so it says. I stand corrected Mr.-tongue-sticky-outy-thing.
ravenshrike 06-27-07, 10:35 AM	I didn't read that exception. In order to initiate a manuever of any sort, you need to be able to move. Ergo, if you can't move you can't perform IHS. pg. 38 ToB:Bo9S The same does NOT apply to stances, however.
twbruhn 06-29-07, 12:02 AM	Ah yeah, I read that the other day.