Tumble and Ranged rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Tumble and Ranged rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BreegJac17
04-01-07, 11:14 AM Is this necessary for a ranged combatant? or should i keep this skill just in case i get into melee??
BW0222
04-01-07, 11:36 AM BreegJac17,

You can usually just use a 5' step to get out of more problems. Tumbling usually is not necessary at lower levels and even at higher levels it means that you can not use a full attack action -- i.e. if you need to load a crossbow, wish to use two weapon fighting (throw two daggers) or rapid shot, you won't wish to take more than a 5' step anyway.

That said, tumble is always good to have.

* If a creature with reach moves next to you, it is extremely difficult to get out of there.

* Even at higher levels, if a creature is 5' away from you, it might be better to tumble away and shoot once, since it means that they can't 5' step and get a full attack at you.

* Sometimes you wish to tumble around them so that you can get a clear shot at folks behind them.

* There are cases when you do need to enter melee. For example, something attacks the party from the rear and you need to block until another character is free, in fog, when rushed, when disarmed, etc.

* For a rogue the only real advantage you have in combat is sneak attack. The two ways of gaining this are flanking and denying someone there dexterity. You can't flank with ranged weapons and unless you have improved invisiblity or something, it is extremely hard to deny an opponent their dexterity except from being flatfooted (which only happens with surprise) or grappling -- which ranged attacks are just as likely to hit friends. i.e. not using melee weapons makes it really hard to gain any sneak attacks after the first round of combat.

If sneak attack isn't a goal, one thing you might consider is to put 4 ranks into it to start. With a good dex, you are still something like +8. This gives you a 70% chance to get out of trouble if you need to. Wait until about 5th-level and then decide if you need to put more ranks into it. If you find it necessary, then start putting 2 or 4 ranks into it per level until you catch-up.
ClementWillowbreaker
04-01-07, 01:12 PM Tumbling and using Shot on the Run/Manyshot aren't things that archers want to be doing, but they often have to do it for survival and tactical positioning. It is well worth it to get enough Tumble to have a +14 mod as an archer. Chances are you won't need to be DC25ing through creatures very often, but you need the ability to safely flee threatened areas if you are a ranged character.
BreegJac17
04-01-07, 01:20 PM Thanks for the input :)
BreegJac17
04-01-07, 01:34 PM Wait. The only way a rogue can get a SA off is when they are flat-footed??

Where in the SRD does it say this.

Also, why are there feats like Crossbow sniper and etc. that allow my ranged attacks to SA, if ranged combat for rogues is useless???
Kintara
04-01-07, 02:03 PM They don't need to be flat-footed (that's a very specific condition), but they do need to be denied their Dex bonus for some reason.

It's very important to ambush and/or win initiative if you're a ranged Rogue. Also, invisibility is helpful. But if you can't do that, then Deadeye Shot is a good idea. The only problem with that is that you're stuck making only one attack, and only if your friend hits the enemy.
Nom
04-01-07, 04:45 PM Wait. The only way a rogue can get a SA off is when they are flat-footed??Not flat-footed. Denied Dex to AC, of which flat-footed is a common cause. You can also sneak attack when you get a flanking bonus, but this requires melee.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BreegJac17 04-01-07, 11:14 AM	Is this necessary for a ranged combatant? or should i keep this skill just in case i get into melee??
BW0222 04-01-07, 11:36 AM	BreegJac17, You can usually just use a 5' step to get out of more problems. Tumbling usually is not necessary at lower levels and even at higher levels it means that you can not use a full attack action -- i.e. if you need to load a crossbow, wish to use two weapon fighting (throw two daggers) or rapid shot, you won't wish to take more than a 5' step anyway. That said, tumble is always good to have. * If a creature with reach moves next to you, it is extremely difficult to get out of there. * Even at higher levels, if a creature is 5' away from you, it might be better to tumble away and shoot once, since it means that they can't 5' step and get a full attack at you. * Sometimes you wish to tumble around them so that you can get a clear shot at folks behind them. * There are cases when you do need to enter melee. For example, something attacks the party from the rear and you need to block until another character is free, in fog, when rushed, when disarmed, etc. * For a rogue the only real advantage you have in combat is sneak attack. The two ways of gaining this are flanking and denying someone there dexterity. You can't flank with ranged weapons and unless you have improved invisiblity or something, it is extremely hard to deny an opponent their dexterity except from being flatfooted (which only happens with surprise) or grappling -- which ranged attacks are just as likely to hit friends. i.e. not using melee weapons makes it really hard to gain any sneak attacks after the first round of combat. If sneak attack isn't a goal, one thing you might consider is to put 4 ranks into it to start. With a good dex, you are still something like +8. This gives you a 70% chance to get out of trouble if you need to. Wait until about 5th-level and then decide if you need to put more ranks into it. If you find it necessary, then start putting 2 or 4 ranks into it per level until you catch-up.
ClementWillowbreaker 04-01-07, 01:12 PM	Tumbling and using Shot on the Run/Manyshot aren't things that archers want to be doing, but they often have to do it for survival and tactical positioning. It is well worth it to get enough Tumble to have a +14 mod as an archer. Chances are you won't need to be DC25ing through creatures very often, but you need the ability to safely flee threatened areas if you are a ranged character.
BreegJac17 04-01-07, 01:20 PM	Thanks for the input :)
BreegJac17 04-01-07, 01:34 PM	Wait. The only way a rogue can get a SA off is when they are flat-footed?? Where in the SRD does it say this. Also, why are there feats like Crossbow sniper and etc. that allow my ranged attacks to SA, if ranged combat for rogues is useless???
Kintara 04-01-07, 02:03 PM	They don't need to be flat-footed (that's a very specific condition), but they do need to be denied their Dex bonus for some reason. It's very important to ambush and/or win initiative if you're a ranged Rogue. Also, invisibility is helpful. But if you can't do that, then Deadeye Shot is a good idea. The only problem with that is that you're stuck making only one attack, and only if your friend hits the enemy.
Nom 04-01-07, 04:45 PM	Wait. The only way a rogue can get a SA off is when they are flat-footed??Not flat-footed. Denied Dex to AC, of which flat-footed is a common cause. You can also sneak attack when you get a flanking bonus, but this requires melee.