Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EiketheRogue 07-23-07, 04:31 PM	Ello there! Okay, I'm a bit stumped on one of my class skills. Tumble. When I think of tumble, I just think of rolling around *like Link from Zelda*. Is there any other use for this skill???
tvar1 07-23-07, 04:35 PM	Tumble is very useful. They ways you can use it are here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm):
Fireclave 07-23-07, 04:41 PM	And Tumble is more than just rolling around: Tumble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z34JYwNGFtw) Tumble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RA6TmDtvCQ&NR=1) combined with liberal use of Jump and Balance
EiketheRogue 07-23-07, 04:43 PM	Interesting, so I can use Tumble to do backflips as a performance act? Wouldn't I have to roll Jump checks for that as well? It also seems as though I can get closer to an enemy without provoking AoO and would increase my rogue's defensive power. My rogue is built for combat and defense *surprises other fighters with his parry skills* and Tumble might be a good addition for me. TY :) if there's anything else I can use for Tumble, it would be nice to know :D
VulcanStormwrath 07-23-07, 04:47 PM	Tumble is essentially acrobatics. Flipping through the air or landing in a roll is a tumble check for which success negates 1D6 of falling damage. I've also seen DM's rule that the ability to tumble can be used protectively in many ways. Riding out the blast wave caused by the Explosive spell feat, negating the damage, avoiding taking damage from being thrown down a flight of stairs etc. It can also be used for movement past or through an occupied space, avoiding attacks of opportunity. Think of an Assasin diving past a guard to strike his target, or a monk doing a running front flip over the fighter in order to take out the mage behind him. The rules give a few uses and a creative DM with inventive players can come up with countless oher options.
EiketheRogue 07-23-07, 04:51 PM	Oh snap cuz! *just saw that sick free running vid* My rogue can use all that to get away or to get to places other ppl don't want him to be. Climb, Balance, Jump, and Tumble would all be used to free run.
VulcanStormwrath 07-23-07, 04:55 PM	If I were a cop in a world where most criminals took ranks in tumble, I'd focus on becoming a really good shot!
Irving 07-23-07, 07:42 PM	Tumble is a fantastic skill if: - You are a rogue who has a flanking buddy. Liberal use of this skill garauntees that you can line up the flank. - You ever need to zip past the line of zombies to get to the evil cleric. (Let the barbarian have fun smashing all of them with Great Cleave. He'll have a riot, trust me. You can go get the real work done. - You have a good Jump skill. Jump down (DC 15)+Tumble(DC 15)=negates 20 feet of falling damage, which is in my experience is easily enough for most dungeons. (Not the really memorable ones, mind you, but most.) - Someone absoutely, positively has to pour a healing potion down the throat of the new guy who ended up on the wrong side of the fight and is now at -8 hit points right now. - You like Jackie Chan flicks.
jago668 07-24-07, 01:06 AM	As others have stated. Tumble is a general acrobatics/gymnastics type of skill. Most likely if it is physical and isn't covered by Jump, Climb, or Balance it falls into Tumble. Watch the olympics sometime. The gymnastics section is all Tumble (well a little bit of jump/balance tossed in for flavor).
DrRufio 07-24-07, 01:23 AM	heh, this is a nice coincidence, i had a tumble question. I remember seeing somewhere that you can tumble while jumping to avoid AoO's (at a large penalty of course). Anyone know if I'm not just making this up, and if not, what book is it in?
Squall255 07-24-07, 02:04 AM	also, a DC40 lets you take either two 5ft. steps, or a 10ft. step instead of a 5ft step.
Vegepygmy 07-24-07, 02:33 AM	Jump down (DC 15)+Tumble(DC 15)=negates 20 feet of falling damage...No, it doesn't. It just negates the first 10 feet twice. If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage.
Dheran 07-24-07, 01:51 PM	No, it doesn't. It just negates the first 10 feet twice. This is a bit confusing. While the DMG is certainly an authoritative source, it's not the primary source for skill uses. That's the PH:Jumping Down If you intentionally jump from a height, you take less damage than you would if you just fell. The DC to jump down from a height is 15. You do not have to get a running start to jump down, so the DC is not doubled if you do not get a running start. If you succeed on the check, you take falling damage as if you had dropped 10 fewer feet than you actually did. Please note that this doesn't say that it lets you "avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen", and that makes no sense in any case. It's the last 10 feet fallen that your Jump skill will negate, because you know how to absorb the impact. (The first 10' don't hurt at all, as they're just displacing air.) Since the primary source is always right unless revised by errata, the DMG is wrong because it makes up restrictions to the skill use that are in conflict with the rules in the PH.
Vegepygmy 07-24-07, 03:22 PM	Since the primary source is always right unless revised by errata, the DMG is wrong because it makes up restrictions to the skill use that are in conflict with the rules in the PH.There is no conflict between the PH and DMG, Dheran. Assume a fall of 50 feet. Now, make your Jump check (DC 15). What is the effect? You take falling damage as if you had dropped 10 fewer feet than you actually did, right? How far did you actually drop? 50 feet. How much falling damage do you take? As if you had dropped 40 (10 fewer than 50) feet. Now make your Tumble check (DC 15). What is the effect? You treat the fall "as if it were 10 feet shorter than it really is when determining damage," right? How far did you really fall? 50 feet. How much falling damage do you take? As if you had fallen 40 (10 shorter than 50) feet. The effects of each use of the skills are the same: the fall is treated as 10 feet shorter than it actually/really is, not 10 feet shorter than it effectively would have been.
Dheran 07-24-07, 11:28 PM	There is no conflict between the PH and DMG, Dheran. You're comparing the PH skill descriptions of Jump and Tumble, Vegepygmy. That's got nothing to do with the point about the DMG being in conflict with the PH. The DMG makes claims that aren't backed up by rules in the primary source: The falling damage is subtracted from the first 10' -- which is typically just displacing air. Neither of the PH skill descriptions specify that the distance is reduced from the top of the fall, merely that the effective distance is reduced. The second 10' of damage is nonlethal. Again, this doesn't match the Jump description in the primary source.
zorgling25 07-24-07, 11:36 PM	You're comparing the PH skill descriptions of Jump and Tumble, Vegepygmy. That's got nothing to do with the point about the DMG being in conflict with the PH. The DMG makes claims that aren't backed up by rules in the primary source: The falling damage is subtracted from the first 10' -- which is typically just displacing air. Neither of the PH skill descriptions specify that the distance is reduced from the top of the fall, merely that the effective distance is reduced. The second 10' of damage is nonlethal. Again, this doesn't match the Jump description in the primary source. You misinterpret him. He is making the point that regardless of the DMG, by RAW, the two still don't stack. Tumble reduces damage as though you fell 10 feet less than you actually fell, so does Jump. Tumble lets you fall as though you fell 40 ft. instead of 50 ft. Jump also makes it equivalent to 40 ft., not 30 ft. Since you ACTUALLY FELL 50 ft. A similar example is how Titan Bloodline and Monkey Grip don't stack, because while Titan Bloodline lets you use a weapon size larger than you, Monkey Grip is based on your ACTUAL SIZE, instead of what you can wield.
Irving 07-24-07, 11:43 PM	Makes sense to me - although it's a little unnerving to see no reference to "the second 10 feet fallen treated as nonlethal damage" in the PHB. It's still getting off lightly.
yrogerg 07-24-07, 11:47 PM	There's also a sizable number of skill tricks that make use of Tumble.
Anguirus23 07-24-07, 11:58 PM	Tumble is obscenely useful because it's a flat skill DC that most characters won't have any problem at all making if they have a decent Dex and full ranks. In other words, I find that it is effectively the "ignore AoOs skill." It's not even modified by the enemy's attack bonus or anything.
Fuzzly 07-25-07, 10:21 AM	I was a level 2 or 3 monk. We were in some building fighting some goblins. We were in a barracks, and unfortunately the room was structured to where all the goblins were in between two beds and a party member. That meant that everyone but me had their own personal goblin to beat up. =( That's no fun! So I made a jump/tumble check to jump up on a bed and attack a gobbo. I kinda failed/suceeded. I got on the bed, but it was more like I kinda fell on it and got tangled up in the sheets.
DrRufio 07-25-07, 02:46 PM	heh, this is a nice coincidence, i had a tumble question. I remember seeing somewhere that you can tumble while jumping to avoid AoO's (at a large penalty of course). Anyone know if I'm not just making this up, and if not, what book is it in? What's the verdict?
Vegepygmy 07-26-07, 01:10 AM	What's the verdict?Jumping is movement; there's no reason you couldn't tumble while jumping.
Dheran 07-26-07, 04:02 AM	Vegepygmy's right; using Jump is just a form of land movement, so as long as you have a listed land speed you can Tumble. The only consideration is that you need to make both skill checks, with appropriate modifiers. So Jump requires that you get a "running" start of least 20 feet in a straight line before attempting the jump, or the DC is doubled. (It's not actually running, because it doesn't include running's increased movement multiplier; you're limited to your normal maximum hustle movement in a round.) Since you need to move at full speed to Jump, you've got to impose the -10 Accelerated Tumbling penalty to your Tumble check.
Knight0 07-26-07, 01:17 PM	Also complete adventurer has other uses as does the Epic Handbook.
DrRufio 07-26-07, 02:43 PM	Vegepygmy's right; using Jump is just a form of land movement, so as long as you have a listed land speed you can Tumble. The only consideration is that you need to make both skill checks, with appropriate modifiers. So Jump requires that you get a "running" start of least 20 feet in a straight line before attempting the jump, or the DC is doubled. (It's not actually running, because it doesn't include running's increased movement multiplier; you're limited to your normal maximum hustle movement in a round.) Since you need to move at full speed to Jump, you've got to impose the -10 Accelerated Tumbling penalty to your Tumble check. What if I don't take a running start for my jump and double the jump DC, what does that do for the Tumble DC?
Pentagram 07-26-07, 03:21 PM	What if I don't take a running start for my jump and double the jump DC, what does that do for the Tumble DC? If you don't move faster than half your speed you'll get no penalty to Tumble. Actually, if you have a speed of at least 50' you could make a running jump while still moving half speed, getting penalties to neither Jump nor Tumble.
Dheran 07-26-07, 07:35 PM	If you don't move faster than half your speed you'll get no penalty to Tumble. Actually, if you have a speed of at least 50' you could make a running jump while still moving half speed, getting penalties to neither Jump nor Tumble. OK, we've really got to come up with something other than the word "running" to describe this Jump precursor if you can do it at a walking pace. Any suggestions?
Nephlite 07-26-07, 11:18 PM	Also complete adventurer has other uses as does the Epic Handbook. Correct, With Complete Adventurer Tumble further reduces falling damage. With enough Tumble, you can fall 100 feet and take no damage (awsome image though huge check).