TWD + 'Fighting Defensively' + Buckler Shield [Archive] - Wizards Community

TWD + 'Fighting Defensively' + Buckler Shield [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Case
10-05-07, 11:19 AM Hey guys. Need a little bit of help. This might have fit into the Equipment thread better, not sure.

Here's the situation: I'm playing a Rog 3/Swash 1 whose gig is using a two weapon fighting style, defensively, for a nice balance of decent +atk and great defensive bonuses.

I want to make sure I have this right. If I'm wielding two short swords (with the TWF and TWD feats), and wearing an off-hand buckler, and fighting defensively, and I have 5 ranks in tumble...

(sorry, I know that's alot of variables, hence my confusion)

I'm looking at an AC bonus of

+1 (buckler) +1 (TWD) +2 (fight. defensive) +1 (additional TWD + def. fighting bonus) +1 (defensive w/Tumble) = +6 (ONLY FOR A SINGLE ATTACK)

and +5 AC when making a full round attack (w/ a -1 atk penalty on the off-hand b/c of the buckler).

Is this correct? Just making sure. Also, any skills or other weapons that could maximize this style? (I'm waiting to take the Daring Outlaw feat, so won't get another for quite a while).

Thanks in advance.
McPoyo
10-05-07, 11:21 AM You'd need improved buckler defense if you wanted to keep the ac boost from it while wielding two weapons.
Case
10-05-07, 11:23 AM Wow, that was fast. Thank you. Can I take that answer to confirm that I have the rest of the equation correct?

Thanks again (I timed it, got an answer in about 75 seconds; I love you guys).
McPoyo
10-05-07, 11:26 AM It looks pretty close.

Don't forget to throw Combat Expertise in there for another easy +5 for a -5 to hit.

Nets you a +8 from fighting defensively with full expertise for only a -9 to hit.

While it makes hitting hard, it's great for those times when you absolutely have to defend, and you always have the chance of making a nat 20, not to mention it's better than total defense.

Also, if you can swing it, Twin Sword Style from the FRCS nets you another bonus to defense with two swords.
3DJutsu
10-05-07, 11:29 AM Won't work.

TWD - Shield bonus to AC
Buckler - Shield bonus to AC

Unless im missing something here.
McPoyo
10-05-07, 11:39 AM Nope, you're right, I overlooked that one somehow.
Case
10-05-07, 11:41 AM Here's a question though: When you use Combat Expertise, you're not actually fighting defensively, correct? And hence, wouldn't get the bonuses from Tumble and TWD.

Right now tumble and TWD net me -4 atk and +4AC when I choose to fight defensively. So, just to be clear, the only thing combat expertise would let me do it to get even more AC (in exchange for atk) per round, correct?

EDIT: Shoot, wait a second... shield bonuses don't stack. Does that mean that TWD and the Swashbuckler (variant) class trait "Shield of Blades" won't stack!? (That would suck, it's where I envisioned my character going in the near future...
McPoyo
10-05-07, 11:43 AM Total defense does not allow an attack to be made, hence, you cannot utilize expertise with it.

Fighting defensively allows you to make attacks, hence, you can utilize expertise with it.
jaelis
10-05-07, 12:37 PM Get yourself a broadblade shortsword (Complete Adventurer). Gives you another +2 to AC when fighting defensively, IIRC.
Case
10-05-07, 01:01 PM Oh man, Jaelis, you're the best!!

Thank you so much!
jaelis
10-05-07, 02:05 PM No prob... check the errata though, I think they changed it. I don't remember if the +2 is pre- or post-errata.
Case
10-05-07, 04:58 PM Actually, either way it's exotic, and I just can't spare the feats to pick up another weapon proficiency. Ohwell.
Darth Sephiroth
10-05-07, 05:27 PM Here's a question though: When you use Combat Expertise, you're not actually fighting defensively, correct? And hence, wouldn't get the bonuses from Tumble and TWD.

Right now tumble and TWD net me -4 atk and +4AC when I choose to fight defensively. So, just to be clear, the only thing combat expertise would let me do it to get even more AC (in exchange for atk) per round, correct?

EDIT: Shoot, wait a second... shield bonuses don't stack. Does that mean that TWD and the Swashbuckler (variant) class trait "Shield of Blades" won't stack!? (That would suck, it's where I envisioned my character going in the near future...

Shield of Blades stacks with TWD if I remember correctly as it's designed for two-weapon use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Case 10-05-07, 11:19 AM	Hey guys. Need a little bit of help. This might have fit into the Equipment thread better, not sure. Here's the situation: I'm playing a Rog 3/Swash 1 whose gig is using a two weapon fighting style, defensively, for a nice balance of decent +atk and great defensive bonuses. I want to make sure I have this right. If I'm wielding two short swords (with the TWF and TWD feats), and wearing an off-hand buckler, and fighting defensively, and I have 5 ranks in tumble... (sorry, I know that's alot of variables, hence my confusion) I'm looking at an AC bonus of +1 (buckler) +1 (TWD) +2 (fight. defensive) +1 (additional TWD + def. fighting bonus) +1 (defensive w/Tumble) = +6 (ONLY FOR A SINGLE ATTACK) and +5 AC when making a full round attack (w/ a -1 atk penalty on the off-hand b/c of the buckler). Is this correct? Just making sure. Also, any skills or other weapons that could maximize this style? (I'm waiting to take the Daring Outlaw feat, so won't get another for quite a while). Thanks in advance.
McPoyo 10-05-07, 11:21 AM	You'd need improved buckler defense if you wanted to keep the ac boost from it while wielding two weapons.
Case 10-05-07, 11:23 AM	Wow, that was fast. Thank you. Can I take that answer to confirm that I have the rest of the equation correct? Thanks again (I timed it, got an answer in about 75 seconds; I love you guys).
McPoyo 10-05-07, 11:26 AM	It looks pretty close. Don't forget to throw Combat Expertise in there for another easy +5 for a -5 to hit. Nets you a +8 from fighting defensively with full expertise for only a -9 to hit. While it makes hitting hard, it's great for those times when you absolutely have to defend, and you always have the chance of making a nat 20, not to mention it's better than total defense. Also, if you can swing it, Twin Sword Style from the FRCS nets you another bonus to defense with two swords.
3DJutsu 10-05-07, 11:29 AM	Won't work. TWD - Shield bonus to AC Buckler - Shield bonus to AC Unless im missing something here.
McPoyo 10-05-07, 11:39 AM	Nope, you're right, I overlooked that one somehow.
Case 10-05-07, 11:41 AM	Here's a question though: When you use Combat Expertise, you're not actually fighting defensively, correct? And hence, wouldn't get the bonuses from Tumble and TWD. Right now tumble and TWD net me -4 atk and +4AC when I choose to fight defensively. So, just to be clear, the only thing combat expertise would let me do it to get even more AC (in exchange for atk) per round, correct? EDIT: Shoot, wait a second... shield bonuses don't stack. Does that mean that TWD and the Swashbuckler (variant) class trait "Shield of Blades" won't stack!? (That would suck, it's where I envisioned my character going in the near future...
McPoyo 10-05-07, 11:43 AM	Total defense does not allow an attack to be made, hence, you cannot utilize expertise with it. Fighting defensively allows you to make attacks, hence, you can utilize expertise with it.
jaelis 10-05-07, 12:37 PM	Get yourself a broadblade shortsword (Complete Adventurer). Gives you another +2 to AC when fighting defensively, IIRC.
Case 10-05-07, 01:01 PM	Oh man, Jaelis, you're the best!! Thank you so much!
jaelis 10-05-07, 02:05 PM	No prob... check the errata though, I think they changed it. I don't remember if the +2 is pre- or post-errata.
Case 10-05-07, 04:58 PM	Actually, either way it's exotic, and I just can't spare the feats to pick up another weapon proficiency. Ohwell.
Darth Sephiroth 10-05-07, 05:27 PM	Here's a question though: When you use Combat Expertise, you're not actually fighting defensively, correct? And hence, wouldn't get the bonuses from Tumble and TWD. Right now tumble and TWD net me -4 atk and +4AC when I choose to fight defensively. So, just to be clear, the only thing combat expertise would let me do it to get even more AC (in exchange for atk) per round, correct? EDIT: Shoot, wait a second... shield bonuses don't stack. Does that mean that TWD and the Swashbuckler (variant) class trait "Shield of Blades" won't stack!? (That would suck, it's where I envisioned my character going in the near future... Shield of Blades stacks with TWD if I remember correctly as it's designed for two-weapon use.