TWF with weaponlike spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

TWF with weaponlike spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kaeroth
01-29-08, 01:27 AM Hey. New to the boards, so I'm worried that my question has already been asked but eluded my search for it. With TWF, I assume you can't cast two weaponlike spells (like two Scorching Rays). But could someone make an attack with a sword and an attack with a spell (at a -2 for each of course, as I assume the spell would count as a light weapon)?

It seems like it the answer should be no, but I don't know that the rules disallow it. A spell (most of the spells that could work with this, anyway) is a standard action, but then so is an attack with a sword, and if I had two I could make two attacks with them. If it's an issue of a melee/ranged combo not being allowed with TWF, could you cast a spell while firing a crossbow?

Forgiveness if this has come up before and I just couldn't find it.
mplindustries
01-29-08, 02:02 AM Unfortunately, Two-Weapon Fighting is only an option during a Full Attack, which is a Full-Round Action, not two standard actions.

In other words, no, you cannot TWF with Weaponlike spells.

Of course, there's a way to do something similar. I think Spellflower (or something like that...it was in Savage species and was reprinted I think somewhere 3.5) lets you hold a charge in each limb you have, so you might be able to TWF those touch spells.

And obviously, quickened or otherwise swift action spells can be cast in addition to standard action spells, giving that Two-fisted Spell Slinging feel, but without the penalties.

Oh, and there is a horrible (Repeat: HORRIBLE) class in the Miniature's Handbook called the Havoc Mage. They can make a standard action to both attack and cast a spell. Please don't take that class though. Its really really bad.

And now as I type, I keep thinking of various ways to do this. The Raumathari Battlemage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030413c) can sort of do it, though the spell only affects the target of his melee attack. As can Ordained Champion from Complete Champion if you want a divine caster. There's also a metamagic feat called Smiting Spell from PHB2 that does something similar, but with a spell-level cost.
Kouk
01-29-08, 03:14 AM A few classes or prestige classes can channel spells through their weapons, delivering the effects on successful hits. This allows you to hit with a weapon and use a spell at the same time, otherwise you need Quickened or Swift Action spells as was suggested.

The Duskblade (PHB2) or the Spellsword (CW) are two ways to channel spells through a melee weapon, and I believe there are a few other ways as well.

You can however cast a Touch spell in one round, and then Hold the Charge. You then can attack with one weapon in the next round and an unarmed or touch attack in the next round to deliver the Touch spell, effectively using Two Weapon Fighting in that way, but you would have to wait until the round after casting (unless it was a Swift Action again).
jaelis
01-29-08, 07:23 AM Hold the charge on a touch spell, and you can deliver it with TWF. You can also use TWF to deliver things like chill touch (in rounds after the round you cast it.) Like Kouk said.
LSMFT
01-29-08, 12:15 PM Generally, this doesn’t include everything, just generally, on your turn you can make:
1 standard action
And 1 move action

Or, you can make 1 full-round action.

A single attack is a standard action.
Making multiple attacks* is a full-round action. It is not making more than 1 standard action in a single round.

As a general rule, you cannot make more than one standard action in a single round.

Making an attack (standard action) and in the same round casting a spell with a casting time of a standard action or more, is not normally possible.

*It doesn’t matter how or why you gained an additional attack or how many additional attacks you’ve gotten. TWF, high BAB, Haste, doesn’t matter. If you are making more than one attack on your turn, it is a Full-round action. Though it might look like it, it is never considered taking more than one standard action in a single round.
kaeroth
01-31-08, 08:50 PM I *knew* there had to be an actual reason instead of "it just doesn't feel like it should be allowed." Thanks, all. I've got a fighter/sorceror and I'm tryong to think of ways to integrate the two classes instead of half of each. I guess I'll have to check out some of those PrC's. Pity that humans can't be bladesingers.
StevenO
01-31-08, 09:19 PM You could IF you aren't casting that spell which normally takes a standard action. The "holding a charge" is basically the only way it works but you are typically only allowed to "hold" one spell at a time so you'd be making the other attacks with a weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kaeroth 01-29-08, 01:27 AM	Hey. New to the boards, so I'm worried that my question has already been asked but eluded my search for it. With TWF, I assume you can't cast two weaponlike spells (like two Scorching Rays). But could someone make an attack with a sword and an attack with a spell (at a -2 for each of course, as I assume the spell would count as a light weapon)? It seems like it the answer should be no, but I don't know that the rules disallow it. A spell (most of the spells that could work with this, anyway) is a standard action, but then so is an attack with a sword, and if I had two I could make two attacks with them. If it's an issue of a melee/ranged combo not being allowed with TWF, could you cast a spell while firing a crossbow? Forgiveness if this has come up before and I just couldn't find it.
mplindustries 01-29-08, 02:02 AM	Unfortunately, Two-Weapon Fighting is only an option during a Full Attack, which is a Full-Round Action, not two standard actions. In other words, no, you cannot TWF with Weaponlike spells. Of course, there's a way to do something similar. I think Spellflower (or something like that...it was in Savage species and was reprinted I think somewhere 3.5) lets you hold a charge in each limb you have, so you might be able to TWF those touch spells. And obviously, quickened or otherwise swift action spells can be cast in addition to standard action spells, giving that Two-fisted Spell Slinging feel, but without the penalties. Oh, and there is a horrible (Repeat: HORRIBLE) class in the Miniature's Handbook called the Havoc Mage. They can make a standard action to both attack and cast a spell. Please don't take that class though. Its really really bad. And now as I type, I keep thinking of various ways to do this. The Raumathari Battlemage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030413c) can sort of do it, though the spell only affects the target of his melee attack. As can Ordained Champion from Complete Champion if you want a divine caster. There's also a metamagic feat called Smiting Spell from PHB2 that does something similar, but with a spell-level cost.
Kouk 01-29-08, 03:14 AM	A few classes or prestige classes can channel spells through their weapons, delivering the effects on successful hits. This allows you to hit with a weapon and use a spell at the same time, otherwise you need Quickened or Swift Action spells as was suggested. The Duskblade (PHB2) or the Spellsword (CW) are two ways to channel spells through a melee weapon, and I believe there are a few other ways as well. You can however cast a Touch spell in one round, and then Hold the Charge. You then can attack with one weapon in the next round and an unarmed or touch attack in the next round to deliver the Touch spell, effectively using Two Weapon Fighting in that way, but you would have to wait until the round after casting (unless it was a Swift Action again).
jaelis 01-29-08, 07:23 AM	Hold the charge on a touch spell, and you can deliver it with TWF. You can also use TWF to deliver things like chill touch (in rounds after the round you cast it.) Like Kouk said.
LSMFT 01-29-08, 12:15 PM	Generally, this doesn’t include everything, just generally, on your turn you can make: 1 standard action And 1 move action Or, you can make 1 full-round action. A single attack is a standard action. Making multiple attacks* is a full-round action. It is not making more than 1 standard action in a single round. As a general rule, you cannot make more than one standard action in a single round. Making an attack (standard action) and in the same round casting a spell with a casting time of a standard action or more, is not normally possible. *It doesn’t matter how or why you gained an additional attack or how many additional attacks you’ve gotten. TWF, high BAB, Haste, doesn’t matter. If you are making more than one attack on your turn, it is a Full-round action. Though it might look like it, it is never considered taking more than one standard action in a single round.
kaeroth 01-31-08, 08:50 PM	I knew there had to be an actual reason instead of "it just doesn't feel like it should be allowed." Thanks, all. I've got a fighter/sorceror and I'm tryong to think of ways to integrate the two classes instead of half of each. I guess I'll have to check out some of those PrC's. Pity that humans can't be bladesingers.
StevenO 01-31-08, 09:19 PM	You could IF you aren't casting that spell which normally takes a standard action. The "holding a charge" is basically the only way it works but you are typically only allowed to "hold" one spell at a time so you'd be making the other attacks with a weapon.