Two new skills: Wilderness Lore and Town Lore (Peach) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Two new skills: Wilderness Lore and Town Lore (Peach) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rondulin
06-15-07, 05:41 PM What do you think of these skills. Town Lore is more of an assembly of already exisitng variant rules.

Wilderness Lore (Wis; trained only)
You know how to get along in the wilderness. Use this skill to follow tracks, hunt wild game, guide a party safely through frozen wastelands, identify creatures, or avoid quicksand and other natural hazards.
Like Craft, Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Wilderness Lore is actually a number of separate skills. For instance, you could have the skill Wilderness Lore (forest). Your ranks in that skill don’t affect any Wilderness Lore (mountains) or Wilderness Lore (marsh) checks you might make. You could have several Wilderness Lore skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill.
Below are listed the eight terrain types.
• Aquatic
• Desert
• Forest
• Hills
• Marsh
• Mountains
• Plains
• Underground
Check: You can keep yourself and others safe and fed in the wild. You can also use this skill to identify creatures typically found in the terrain associated with the skill. The terrain must be specifically mentioned in the Environment entry of the creature’s description (see the Monster Manual). The table below gives the DCs for various tasks that require Wilderness Lore checks.

Wilderness Lore DC Task
10 Get along in the wild. Move up to your full overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result exceeds 10
15 Gain a +2 bonus on all Fortitude saves against severe weather while moving up to your full overland speed, or gain a +6 bonus if you remain stationary. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 15.
15 Keep from getting lost or avoid natural hazards, such as quicksand.
15 You may speed up overland travel through the associated terrain. Treat trackless terrain as trail or trail as highway. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 15.
20 You may speed up overland travel through the associated terrain. Treat trackless terrain as highway. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 20.
15 Identify a creature typically found in the associated terrain revealing all of the base creature’s type and subtype traits as defined in the glossary. This often includes information about energy resistance or various immunities.
10 + CR Identify a creature typically found in the associated terrain revealing information more specific to the creature, such as type of damage resistance or spell-like abilities. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information.
15 + CR Identify creature typically found in the associated terrain, gaining a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against it. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, this bonus increase by +1.

Action: Varies. A single Wilderness Lore check may represent activity over the course of hours or a full day. Identifying creatures doesn’t take an action.
Try Again: Varies. For getting along in the wild, for gaining the Fortitude save bonus noted in the table above, or for faster overland travel, you make a Wilderness Lore check once every 24 hours. The result of that check applies until the next check is made. To avoid getting lost, avoid natural hazards or identifying creatures, you make a Wilderness Lore check whenever the situation calls for one. Retries to avoid getting lost in a specific situation, to avoid a specific natural hazard, or to identify creatures are not allowed.
Special: A ranger gains a bonus on Wilderness Lore checks when using this skill to identify a favored enemy.
Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (aquatic or marsh), you get a +2 bonus on swim checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (desert or plains), you get a +2 bonus on spot checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (forest or underground), you get a +2 bonus on hide checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (hills or mountains), you get a +2 bonus on climb checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (any terrain type), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made to follow tracks in the associated type of terrain.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Survival, you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (all terrain types) checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (dungeoneering), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (underground) checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (nature), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (aquatic, desert, forest, hill, marsh, mountains, and plains) checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (geography), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore checks made to keep from getting lost or to avoid natural hazards.

Town Lore (Cha)
Relying on you knowledge of alleyways you can track down missing or hiding persons, keep yourself and other safe and fed in a city, scrounge together useful items, or simply earns some money by begging.
Check: You can keep yourself and others safe and fed in urban settings. The table below gives the DCs for various tasks that require Town Lore checks.

Town Lore DC Task
10 Get along in an urban setting without paying for food, providing relatively clean water and fresh food. You can grant the same bonus for one other person for every 2 points your check result exceeds 10.
10 Earn some money by begging. You can earn 1d10 cp/day.
15 Locate a relatively warm and dry place to stay in for a 24-hour period. You can grant the same bonus for one other person for every 2 points your check result exceeds 15.
15 Keep from getting lost in confusing streets with which you are not familiar
15 Earn some money by begging. In a prosperous city, you can earn 1d10 sp/day.
20 Earn some money by begging. In a prosperous city, you can earn 3d10 sp/day.
Varies Scrounge together raw material and items from the surrounding environment. The DC equals 15 + the item’s price in gp.
Varies, see table below Track down the location of missing persons or wanted individuals within communities.

Action: Varies. A single Town Lore check may represent activity over the course of hours or a full day. To find the trail of an individual or to follow it for 1 hour requires a Town Lore check. You must make another Town Lore check every hour of the search, as well as each time the trail becomes difficult to follow, such as when it moves to a different town. You can cut the time between Town Lore checks in half (to 30 minutes per check rather than 1 hour), but you take a -5 penalty on the check.
Try Again: Varies. For getting along in urban settings, finding a warm and dry place, or scrounging items, you make a Town Lore check once every 24 hours. The result of that check applies until the next check is made. If you fail a Town Lore check to track someone down, you can retry after 1 hour of questioning.
Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Town Lore, you get a +2 bonus on Disguise and Gather Information checks, on opposed Spot checks against Sleight of Hand attempts made to pick pocket something, and on Hide checks made to tail someone.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (local), you get a +2 bonus on the Town Lore check to track someone.
Loki5654
06-15-07, 06:04 PM Wilderness Lore (Wis; trained only)
So its the Survival skill with a different name. Also, instead of one simple, easy to use skill, you've split it into several subsets which require a character to spend more and more of their precious skillpoints (sweet, sweet skillpoints) just to maintain a basic level of competence.

I feel you've taken something that was simple and practical and made it needlessly complex while decreasing its usablility at the same time.
Town Lore (Cha)
Again, why can't the Survival skill just be used in this case? Personally (as a DM) I'd allow the skill to be used in urban settings for these purposes. If you really must, just make a feat/class feature called Urban Survivalist and be done with it.

Wherever possible, keep it simple.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
Kouk
06-16-07, 01:42 AM Do these replace the existing Knowledge skills completely? If it is just dividing the Survival skill into many different fields, I can't see the purpose.

Unless you are perhaps in a totally outdoors-centered world and you would never encounter a town (vice versa for the town lore) I am not sure how making it so complicated would add to the game.

On the other hand, if you only set the campaign in exactly 1 or 2 kinds of environments that would be the focus of any characters thinking of investing in these skills. If you never leave these places that the players have ranks in, then I guess there would be almost no change to the current system (concerning skills) except that now your players are motivated to not leave certain environments for unknown ones.

Just for the record, Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction were skills in version 3.0 which have been rolled into Survival for 3.5, because it was overly complex to divide them. People just didn't want to split their skill points in this way, and they probably wouldn't want to do it again.

With the Wilderness Lore you propose, this would encourage very specialized druids and rangers (pretty much the only ones who take survival in the first place). They may not want to leave their forests for instance, because they would pretty much "lose" all the skill points they invested in that skill. Otherwise they would just put one point into each, and cross their fingers that they get high rolls.

For Town Lore, I believe in the book Cityscape, they go over how you can use Survival for just these sorts of purposes. While I can see where the desire to separate wilderness from civilization survival skills comes from, I don't think it adds anything in particular other than putting the rangers and druids out of their element. The only class that might take Town Lore is the Rogue, with their extra skill points, and maybe for background flavor. Generally it wouldn't be hard to make Gather Information checks and find a nice cheap inn for adventurers.
LoreleiIsildae
06-16-07, 04:34 AM Having Wilderness Lore broken down into separate skills like perform or craft seems rather pointless, especially since you have a limited number of skill points to begin with as Loki mentioned.

Town Lore also seems like another unnecessary skill when Knowledge local and Gather Information would work just as well for what you propose. Maybe throw in Profession (beggar) if your characters are against stealing to make money.

Just for the record, Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction were skills in version 3.0 which have been rolled into Survival for 3.5, because it was overly complex to divide them. People just didn't want to split their skill points in this way, and they probably wouldn't want to do it again.

I agree. By simplifying the skills (Handle Animal and Sleight of Hand apply here as well), it has made the gameplay smoother and less bogged down. What I'm seeing is that you're looking for ways to obtain synergy bonuses, again at the expense of much needed skill points.
risner
06-16-07, 08:37 AM Just use Survival.

Also, wilderness lore is the 3.0 name for Survival.
Rondulin
06-16-07, 11:06 AM First I have to excuse the bad formatting, which makes reading hard.

These skills are not intended to replace other 3.5 skills. Thus, I though of Wilderness Lore (wanted to call it terrain knowledge first, but then the name wilderness lore got free again), of a more specialized form of Survival. You get higher bonuses (you can move full speed, you can increase your speed, identify creatures and get combat bonuses) but only in a specific sort of environment.

As for Town Lore, I'm aware that some books suggest to use Survival instead, but in my mind Survival is closely connected with wilderness environment (after all that's why only barbarian, druids and ranger get it).

Hope that could clear some things up a bit.
LoreleiIsildae
06-16-07, 03:51 PM Perhaps I can clear my position up for you.

Wilderness Lore DC Task
10 Get along in the wild. Move up to your full overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result
exceeds 10

I think Survival does this nicely.

15 Gain a +2 bonus on all Fortitude saves against severe weather while moving up to your full overland speed, or gain a +6 bonus if you remain stationary. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 15.

Skills are (generally) user specific as well as class specific. While the idea of granting a bonus to your companions is laudable, they may as well cross-class to achieve the same results. As for the Fortitude bonuses, what you're suggesting I think would be covered by the Endurance feat, and skills are not meant to replace feats. As far as I know, anyway.

15 Keep from getting lost or avoid natural hazards, such as quicksand.

I think Survival works just as well here also, or Knowledge geography.

15 You may speed up overland travel through the associated terrain. Treat trackless terrain as trail or trail as highway. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 15.

The druid and ranger's Woodland Stride or the scout's Flawless Stride takes care of this. Again, I don't think skills are meant to replace class features (as well as feats). If they were, then they wouldn't need to be class features, since anyone could use them.

20 You may speed up overland travel through the associated terrain. Treat trackless terrain as highway. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 20.

See above.

15 Identify a creature typically found in the associated terrain revealing all of the base creature’s type and subtype traits as defined in the glossary. This often includes information about energy resistance or various immunities.

The appropriate Knowledge check would apply here.

10 + CR Identify a creature typically found in the associated terrain revealing information more specific to the creature, such as type of damage resistance or spell-like abilities. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information.

Again, the appropriate Knowledge check.

15 + CR Identify creature typically found in the associated terrain, gaining a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against it. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, this bonus increase by +1.

This is a class feature of the Horizon Walker, minus the bonus increase.

Special: A ranger gains a bonus on Wilderness Lore checks when using this skill to identify a favored enemy.

Knowledge check again.

Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (aquatic or marsh), you get a +2 bonus on swim checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (desert or plains), you get a +2 bonus on spot checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (forest or underground), you get a +2 bonus on hide checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (hills or mountains), you get a +2 bonus on climb checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (any terrain type), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made to follow tracks in the associated type of terrain.

Like I mentioned before, it just sounds like you're attempting to gain synergy bonuses. Plus, these are also class features of the Horizon Walker, except the bonuses are +4, and you don't get a bonus to track.

If you have 5 or more ranks in Survival, you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (all terrain types) checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (dungeoneering), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (underground) checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (nature), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (aquatic, desert, forest, hill, marsh, mountains, and plains) checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (geography), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore checks made to keep from getting lost or to avoid natural hazards.

These synergy bonuses already exist. 5 or more ranks in the appropriate Knowledge skill (dungeoneering, nature, geography, the planes) and you get a +2 bonus to Survival for that environment (underground, aboveground [aquatic, desert, forest, plains, hills, mountains, marsh, etc.], getting lost or avoiding hazards, and planar survival).
edit: 5 ranks in Survival gives you a +2 on Knowledge nature

As for Town Lore: Knowledge local, Gather Information, and Survival are all you're going to need to get along in an urban environment. And if you don't feel Survival to be appropriate for that setting, then you can make the other two skills work just as well without it.

You mentioned that these skill aren't intended to replace the other 3.5 skills. Then all you're doing is adding unnecessary skills into the mix when the existing skills already do what you've mentioned. I'm pretty sure most players wouldn't want to put their skill points in something that can be covered by something else.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rondulin 06-15-07, 05:41 PM	What do you think of these skills. Town Lore is more of an assembly of already exisitng variant rules. Wilderness Lore (Wis; trained only) You know how to get along in the wilderness. Use this skill to follow tracks, hunt wild game, guide a party safely through frozen wastelands, identify creatures, or avoid quicksand and other natural hazards. Like Craft, Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Wilderness Lore is actually a number of separate skills. For instance, you could have the skill Wilderness Lore (forest). Your ranks in that skill don’t affect any Wilderness Lore (mountains) or Wilderness Lore (marsh) checks you might make. You could have several Wilderness Lore skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill. Below are listed the eight terrain types. • Aquatic • Desert • Forest • Hills • Marsh • Mountains • Plains • Underground Check: You can keep yourself and others safe and fed in the wild. You can also use this skill to identify creatures typically found in the terrain associated with the skill. The terrain must be specifically mentioned in the Environment entry of the creature’s description (see the Monster Manual). The table below gives the DCs for various tasks that require Wilderness Lore checks. Wilderness Lore DC Task 10 Get along in the wild. Move up to your full overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result exceeds 10 15 Gain a +2 bonus on all Fortitude saves against severe weather while moving up to your full overland speed, or gain a +6 bonus if you remain stationary. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 15. 15 Keep from getting lost or avoid natural hazards, such as quicksand. 15 You may speed up overland travel through the associated terrain. Treat trackless terrain as trail or trail as highway. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 15. 20 You may speed up overland travel through the associated terrain. Treat trackless terrain as highway. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 20. 15 Identify a creature typically found in the associated terrain revealing all of the base creature’s type and subtype traits as defined in the glossary. This often includes information about energy resistance or various immunities. 10 + CR Identify a creature typically found in the associated terrain revealing information more specific to the creature, such as type of damage resistance or spell-like abilities. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information. 15 + CR Identify creature typically found in the associated terrain, gaining a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against it. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, this bonus increase by +1. Action: Varies. A single Wilderness Lore check may represent activity over the course of hours or a full day. Identifying creatures doesn’t take an action. Try Again: Varies. For getting along in the wild, for gaining the Fortitude save bonus noted in the table above, or for faster overland travel, you make a Wilderness Lore check once every 24 hours. The result of that check applies until the next check is made. To avoid getting lost, avoid natural hazards or identifying creatures, you make a Wilderness Lore check whenever the situation calls for one. Retries to avoid getting lost in a specific situation, to avoid a specific natural hazard, or to identify creatures are not allowed. Special: A ranger gains a bonus on Wilderness Lore checks when using this skill to identify a favored enemy. Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (aquatic or marsh), you get a +2 bonus on swim checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (desert or plains), you get a +2 bonus on spot checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (forest or underground), you get a +2 bonus on hide checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (hills or mountains), you get a +2 bonus on climb checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (any terrain type), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made to follow tracks in the associated type of terrain. If you have 5 or more ranks in Survival, you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (all terrain types) checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (dungeoneering), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (underground) checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (nature), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (aquatic, desert, forest, hill, marsh, mountains, and plains) checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (geography), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore checks made to keep from getting lost or to avoid natural hazards. Town Lore (Cha) Relying on you knowledge of alleyways you can track down missing or hiding persons, keep yourself and other safe and fed in a city, scrounge together useful items, or simply earns some money by begging. Check: You can keep yourself and others safe and fed in urban settings. The table below gives the DCs for various tasks that require Town Lore checks. Town Lore DC Task 10 Get along in an urban setting without paying for food, providing relatively clean water and fresh food. You can grant the same bonus for one other person for every 2 points your check result exceeds 10. 10 Earn some money by begging. You can earn 1d10 cp/day. 15 Locate a relatively warm and dry place to stay in for a 24-hour period. You can grant the same bonus for one other person for every 2 points your check result exceeds 15. 15 Keep from getting lost in confusing streets with which you are not familiar 15 Earn some money by begging. In a prosperous city, you can earn 1d10 sp/day. 20 Earn some money by begging. In a prosperous city, you can earn 3d10 sp/day. Varies Scrounge together raw material and items from the surrounding environment. The DC equals 15 + the item’s price in gp. Varies, see table below Track down the location of missing persons or wanted individuals within communities. Action: Varies. A single Town Lore check may represent activity over the course of hours or a full day. To find the trail of an individual or to follow it for 1 hour requires a Town Lore check. You must make another Town Lore check every hour of the search, as well as each time the trail becomes difficult to follow, such as when it moves to a different town. You can cut the time between Town Lore checks in half (to 30 minutes per check rather than 1 hour), but you take a -5 penalty on the check. Try Again: Varies. For getting along in urban settings, finding a warm and dry place, or scrounging items, you make a Town Lore check once every 24 hours. The result of that check applies until the next check is made. If you fail a Town Lore check to track someone down, you can retry after 1 hour of questioning. Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Town Lore, you get a +2 bonus on Disguise and Gather Information checks, on opposed Spot checks against Sleight of Hand attempts made to pick pocket something, and on Hide checks made to tail someone. If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (local), you get a +2 bonus on the Town Lore check to track someone.
Loki5654 06-15-07, 06:04 PM	Wilderness Lore (Wis; trained only) So its the Survival skill with a different name. Also, instead of one simple, easy to use skill, you've split it into several subsets which require a character to spend more and more of their precious skillpoints (sweet, sweet skillpoints) just to maintain a basic level of competence. I feel you've taken something that was simple and practical and made it needlessly complex while decreasing its usablility at the same time. Town Lore (Cha) Again, why can't the Survival skill just be used in this case? Personally (as a DM) I'd allow the skill to be used in urban settings for these purposes. If you really must, just make a feat/class feature called Urban Survivalist and be done with it. Wherever possible, keep it simple. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
Kouk 06-16-07, 01:42 AM	Do these replace the existing Knowledge skills completely? If it is just dividing the Survival skill into many different fields, I can't see the purpose. Unless you are perhaps in a totally outdoors-centered world and you would never encounter a town (vice versa for the town lore) I am not sure how making it so complicated would add to the game. On the other hand, if you only set the campaign in exactly 1 or 2 kinds of environments that would be the focus of any characters thinking of investing in these skills. If you never leave these places that the players have ranks in, then I guess there would be almost no change to the current system (concerning skills) except that now your players are motivated to not leave certain environments for unknown ones. Just for the record, Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction were skills in version 3.0 which have been rolled into Survival for 3.5, because it was overly complex to divide them. People just didn't want to split their skill points in this way, and they probably wouldn't want to do it again. With the Wilderness Lore you propose, this would encourage very specialized druids and rangers (pretty much the only ones who take survival in the first place). They may not want to leave their forests for instance, because they would pretty much "lose" all the skill points they invested in that skill. Otherwise they would just put one point into each, and cross their fingers that they get high rolls. For Town Lore, I believe in the book Cityscape, they go over how you can use Survival for just these sorts of purposes. While I can see where the desire to separate wilderness from civilization survival skills comes from, I don't think it adds anything in particular other than putting the rangers and druids out of their element. The only class that might take Town Lore is the Rogue, with their extra skill points, and maybe for background flavor. Generally it wouldn't be hard to make Gather Information checks and find a nice cheap inn for adventurers.
LoreleiIsildae 06-16-07, 04:34 AM	Having Wilderness Lore broken down into separate skills like perform or craft seems rather pointless, especially since you have a limited number of skill points to begin with as Loki mentioned. Town Lore also seems like another unnecessary skill when Knowledge local and Gather Information would work just as well for what you propose. Maybe throw in Profession (beggar) if your characters are against stealing to make money. Just for the record, Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction were skills in version 3.0 which have been rolled into Survival for 3.5, because it was overly complex to divide them. People just didn't want to split their skill points in this way, and they probably wouldn't want to do it again. I agree. By simplifying the skills (Handle Animal and Sleight of Hand apply here as well), it has made the gameplay smoother and less bogged down. What I'm seeing is that you're looking for ways to obtain synergy bonuses, again at the expense of much needed skill points.
risner 06-16-07, 08:37 AM	Just use Survival. Also, wilderness lore is the 3.0 name for Survival.
Rondulin 06-16-07, 11:06 AM	First I have to excuse the bad formatting, which makes reading hard. These skills are not intended to replace other 3.5 skills. Thus, I though of Wilderness Lore (wanted to call it terrain knowledge first, but then the name wilderness lore got free again), of a more specialized form of Survival. You get higher bonuses (you can move full speed, you can increase your speed, identify creatures and get combat bonuses) but only in a specific sort of environment. As for Town Lore, I'm aware that some books suggest to use Survival instead, but in my mind Survival is closely connected with wilderness environment (after all that's why only barbarian, druids and ranger get it). Hope that could clear some things up a bit.
LoreleiIsildae 06-16-07, 03:51 PM	Perhaps I can clear my position up for you. Wilderness Lore DC Task 10 Get along in the wild. Move up to your full overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result exceeds 10 I think Survival does this nicely. 15 Gain a +2 bonus on all Fortitude saves against severe weather while moving up to your full overland speed, or gain a +6 bonus if you remain stationary. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 15. Skills are (generally) user specific as well as class specific. While the idea of granting a bonus to your companions is laudable, they may as well cross-class to achieve the same results. As for the Fortitude bonuses, what you're suggesting I think would be covered by the Endurance feat, and skills are not meant to replace feats. As far as I know, anyway. 15 Keep from getting lost or avoid natural hazards, such as quicksand. I think Survival works just as well here also, or Knowledge geography. 15 You may speed up overland travel through the associated terrain. Treat trackless terrain as trail or trail as highway. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 15. The druid and ranger's Woodland Stride or the scout's Flawless Stride takes care of this. Again, I don't think skills are meant to replace class features (as well as feats). If they were, then they wouldn't need to be class features, since anyone could use them. 20 You may speed up overland travel through the associated terrain. Treat trackless terrain as highway. You may grant the same bonus to one other character for every 1 point by which your Survival check result exceeds 20. See above. 15 Identify a creature typically found in the associated terrain revealing all of the base creature’s type and subtype traits as defined in the glossary. This often includes information about energy resistance or various immunities. The appropriate Knowledge check would apply here. 10 + CR Identify a creature typically found in the associated terrain revealing information more specific to the creature, such as type of damage resistance or spell-like abilities. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information. Again, the appropriate Knowledge check. 15 + CR Identify creature typically found in the associated terrain, gaining a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against it. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, this bonus increase by +1. This is a class feature of the Horizon Walker, minus the bonus increase. Special: A ranger gains a bonus on Wilderness Lore checks when using this skill to identify a favored enemy. Knowledge check again. Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (aquatic or marsh), you get a +2 bonus on swim checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (desert or plains), you get a +2 bonus on spot checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (forest or underground), you get a +2 bonus on hide checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (hills or mountains), you get a +2 bonus on climb checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Wilderness Lore (any terrain type), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made to follow tracks in the associated type of terrain. Like I mentioned before, it just sounds like you're attempting to gain synergy bonuses. Plus, these are also class features of the Horizon Walker, except the bonuses are +4, and you don't get a bonus to track. If you have 5 or more ranks in Survival, you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (all terrain types) checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (dungeoneering), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (underground) checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (nature), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore (aquatic, desert, forest, hill, marsh, mountains, and plains) checks. If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (geography), you get a +2 bonus on Wilderness Lore checks made to keep from getting lost or to avoid natural hazards. These synergy bonuses already exist. 5 or more ranks in the appropriate Knowledge skill (dungeoneering, nature, geography, the planes) and you get a +2 bonus to Survival for that environment (underground, aboveground [aquatic, desert, forest, plains, hills, mountains, marsh, etc.], getting lost or avoiding hazards, and planar survival). edit: 5 ranks in Survival gives you a +2 on Knowledge nature As for Town Lore: Knowledge local, Gather Information, and Survival are all you're going to need to get along in an urban environment. And if you don't feel Survival to be appropriate for that setting, then you can make the other two skills work just as well without it. You mentioned that these skill aren't intended to replace the other 3.5 skills. Then all you're doing is adding unnecessary skills into the mix when the existing skills already do what you've mentioned. I'm pretty sure most players wouldn't want to put their skill points in something that can be covered by something else.