Two Weapon Defense [Archive] - Wizards Community

Two Weapon Defense [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LordNightwinter
08-22-07, 09:41 AM My DM seems to be stuck on the fact that you have to waste your second attack to gain the benefit of two-weapon defense or twin sword style. I haven't found anything in the books that backs up his belief. If there's something in the books please point it out to me, otherwise is there any way I can prove him wrong here?
Patinho_Amarelo
08-22-07, 10:18 AM Your DM is insane, you receive a bonus to defense (shield i think) when with two weapons, give-up from attack to receive the bonus? Crazy.. Pay improved blucker defense and receive the same bonus :p
tarkin
08-22-07, 10:41 AM While I would not call the DM Insane, I do agree that he is clearly house ruling.

To get the TWD bonus you just need to be using TWF, taking the -2 penalty to attack.

You are not 'wasting' the attack, you actually make it, doing damage.

What the DM describes sounds more like taking a weakened version of the feat Combat Exepertise.

They are different feats, not the same.
runestar
08-22-07, 10:48 AM There is technically nothing stating that you must be using the TWFing attack action to benefit from the shield bonus - you just need to be wielding 2 weapons or a double weapon.

Meaning that in theory at least, a fighter wielding a double weapon as a 2-handed weapon still get the shield bonus as well.:P
Kouk
08-22-07, 10:49 AM Two-Weapon Defense [General]
Prerequisites

Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit

When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons or unarmed strikes), you gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC. See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack.

When you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, this shield bonus increases to +2.
Special

A fighter may select Two-Weapon Defense as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Wielding, as far as the game is usually concerned, just means holding an item in such a way that you could make use of its intended function.

Note that the feat does not say "When you are attacking with two weapons" is just specifies wielding, ie "holding".

It grants a shield bonus to AC, because presumably you are using the second weapon (or other end of a double weapon) to block or ward off incoming attacks in the same way you would with a shield.
Kaladon7779
08-22-07, 10:58 AM Basically it works like this Lordnightwinter

Pre-req is two weapon fighting, that's its own feat, that feat alone gives you the right to take an off hand strike at a penalty.

Now Two weapon defense says that when you have a weapon in your off hand you get a +1 shield bonus. You don't need to strike with it, you can make a full attack. Doesn't matter, as long as you have a weapon in the off hand you get that bonus. So take a full attack and an off hand attack becouse Two Weapon Fighting allows you to do that and you still get the Shield Bonus for Two Weapon Defense.

However, I have to agree with Pantinho, Improved Buckler Defense is just better.

So I would build...
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Buckler Defense.

Only difference is that you take a -1 penalty on your attacks with improved buckler defense however you can enhance that buckler and give you some decent AC, but you get your buckler AC when you make an attack with your off hand. Your Two weapon defense will only ever get to +1 unless you do a total defense which gives you +2. Reality? TWD is a waste of a feat.

Bucklers give you a +1 shield bonus to start with, plus it can be enhanced to +5 giving you +6 Shield bonus, given special abilities like resistance, deflection, thrown ect ect. As you can see at the cost of -1 to your attacks the buckler is just way more superior.
LordNightwinter
08-22-07, 11:44 AM Thanks for the replies guys. If he wants to make that a house rule rogues beware. lol
Someone
08-22-07, 01:09 PM Your DM might be thinking back to a 3.0 feat that had you give up your off-hand attack(s) for a shield bonus. Called "Off-Hand Parry" or some such.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LordNightwinter 08-22-07, 09:41 AM	My DM seems to be stuck on the fact that you have to waste your second attack to gain the benefit of two-weapon defense or twin sword style. I haven't found anything in the books that backs up his belief. If there's something in the books please point it out to me, otherwise is there any way I can prove him wrong here?
Patinho_Amarelo 08-22-07, 10:18 AM	Your DM is insane, you receive a bonus to defense (shield i think) when with two weapons, give-up from attack to receive the bonus? Crazy.. Pay improved blucker defense and receive the same bonus :p
tarkin 08-22-07, 10:41 AM	While I would not call the DM Insane, I do agree that he is clearly house ruling. To get the TWD bonus you just need to be using TWF, taking the -2 penalty to attack. You are not 'wasting' the attack, you actually make it, doing damage. What the DM describes sounds more like taking a weakened version of the feat Combat Exepertise. They are different feats, not the same.
runestar 08-22-07, 10:48 AM	There is technically nothing stating that you must be using the TWFing attack action to benefit from the shield bonus - you just need to be wielding 2 weapons or a double weapon. Meaning that in theory at least, a fighter wielding a double weapon as a 2-handed weapon still get the shield bonus as well.:P
Kouk 08-22-07, 10:49 AM	Two-Weapon Defense [General] Prerequisites Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting. Benefit When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons or unarmed strikes), you gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC. See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack. When you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, this shield bonus increases to +2. Special A fighter may select Two-Weapon Defense as one of his fighter bonus feats. Wielding, as far as the game is usually concerned, just means holding an item in such a way that you could make use of its intended function. Note that the feat does not say "When you are attacking with two weapons" is just specifies wielding, ie "holding". It grants a shield bonus to AC, because presumably you are using the second weapon (or other end of a double weapon) to block or ward off incoming attacks in the same way you would with a shield.
Kaladon7779 08-22-07, 10:58 AM	Basically it works like this Lordnightwinter Pre-req is two weapon fighting, that's its own feat, that feat alone gives you the right to take an off hand strike at a penalty. Now Two weapon defense says that when you have a weapon in your off hand you get a +1 shield bonus. You don't need to strike with it, you can make a full attack. Doesn't matter, as long as you have a weapon in the off hand you get that bonus. So take a full attack and an off hand attack becouse Two Weapon Fighting allows you to do that and you still get the Shield Bonus for Two Weapon Defense. However, I have to agree with Pantinho, Improved Buckler Defense is just better. So I would build... Two Weapon Fighting Improved Buckler Defense. Only difference is that you take a -1 penalty on your attacks with improved buckler defense however you can enhance that buckler and give you some decent AC, but you get your buckler AC when you make an attack with your off hand. Your Two weapon defense will only ever get to +1 unless you do a total defense which gives you +2. Reality? TWD is a waste of a feat. Bucklers give you a +1 shield bonus to start with, plus it can be enhanced to +5 giving you +6 Shield bonus, given special abilities like resistance, deflection, thrown ect ect. As you can see at the cost of -1 to your attacks the buckler is just way more superior.
LordNightwinter 08-22-07, 11:44 AM	Thanks for the replies guys. If he wants to make that a house rule rogues beware. lol
Someone 08-22-07, 01:09 PM	Your DM might be thinking back to a 3.0 feat that had you give up your off-hand attack(s) for a shield bonus. Called "Off-Hand Parry" or some such.