UMD "Related to Scrolls" [Archive] - Wizards Community

UMD "Related to Scrolls" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ToastedAmphibian
04-29-08, 06:12 PM If you have 5 or more ranks in Spellcraft, you get a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device checks related to scrolls.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Decipher Script, you get a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device checks related to scrolls.

Do you get these bonuses if you have to emmulate an ability score for a scroll?

Say, im an 11th level human character with levels in bard;
UMD Ranks: +14
Magical Aptitude: +2 [Or should i take Skill Focus (UMD) instead? Both?]
5 ranks Spellcraft: +2
5 ranks Decipher Script: +2
20 Charisma: +5
Cloak of Charisma +4: +2

Total: +27
I would need to roll a 2 to use a basic 5th level scroll (CL 9)

I would also need to make a second check to emulate an ability score of 15, the DC for this would be 30. Would I need to roll a 3, or a 7 for that? I know to alot of you that dosnt seem like a very big diffrence....... But you know how some people are jusssst so incredibly lucky with dice rolls? Well, all thoes people are just stealing all my good dice rolls and, subsiquently, i RARELY get higher than 10, so the extra +4 is kinda important to have if its legal.
narack
04-29-08, 06:52 PM no, not at all.

Task Use Magic Device DC
Activate blindly 25
Decipher a written spell 25 + spell level
Use a scroll 20 + caster level
Use a wand 20
Emulate a class feature 20
Emulate an ability score See text
Emulate a race 25
Emulate an alignment 30

Complete UMD desc on SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/skillsAll.html#use-magic-device)

emulating an ability is for example let's say we have a lantern of light which need 15 intelligence to use and being an elf. if you don't have the 15 intel you need to make the UMD check and another UMD check if your not an elf.

These item are rare. The most common ones are class item and alignment item Even if there is not alot of them.
ToastedAmphibian
04-29-08, 07:38 PM no, not at all.

emulating an ability is for example let's say we have a lantern of light which need 15 intelligence to use and being an elf. if you don't have the 15 intel you need to make the UMD check and another UMD check if your not an elf.

These item are rare. The most common ones are class item and alignment item Even if there is not alot of them.

You confuse me....

Use a Scroll
If you are casting a spell from a scroll, you have to decipher it first. Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don’t have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
jaelis
04-29-08, 08:21 PM I'd probably say that the bonus did not apply the "emulate an ability" usage, but it could go either way.

Of course, that whole thing is confusing anyway since it's not exactly obvious what ability you are supposed to be emulating. (Who's to say there isn't a Dex-based arcane caster somewhere that you could emulate?)
narack
04-30-08, 08:05 AM You confuse me....

Yes scroll can be tricky because i always forget divine scroll and that not all UMD user have high intel. What it mean is you have a UMD check for usign the scroll. Then one if you have have the stat for. For example you try to cast a Fireball scroll. You need a 20 + 5(caster level) UMD check to cast the spell and you need a stat that allow you to cast the spell. Fireball is a 3rd level so 10+3 = 13. So to cast that fireball you need ABSOLUTELY (if you can't cast arcane spell ) UMD dc 25 and second check (only if you dont already have 13 in Charisma or Intelligence) UMD dc 13 (roll as UMD check - 15 must be greater than 13)

i get use to always think of a rogue when someone talk of UMD and my rogue always have 18 int so up to level 8 spells without ability check for arcane spell only, anyway my rogues never bother cast divine scroll, wand are more efficient
ToastedAmphibian
04-30-08, 03:46 PM Actually, im making a Bard/SublimeChord/WarWeaver
I dont think i can use a wand with teh weave, but since casting a spell from a scroll is done "Like you cast it normally" i think i can probably use that. There are alot of 1-3 level wizard spells, and a few 1-5 level druid/cleric spells that could be usefull to have. However, 15 Int, 15 Wis, and 18 charisma is not a point buy that exactly makes me happy...

So the common consensus is that decipher script and spellcraft do not help me emulate an ability score to use a scroll?
Dheran
05-04-08, 09:15 AM So the common consensus is that decipher script and spellcraft do not help me emulate an ability score to use a scroll? Yes, that's correct.

Do note that any appropriate ability score can be used with a scroll. Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards can all create arcane scrolls, and thus you can use either Intelligence or Charisma, whichever works better for you. Similarly, Druids, Clerics, and Favored Souls can all create divine scrolls, and thus you can choose either Wisdom or Charisma as the appropriate ability for any divine scroll. Once a scroll is scribed it's simply arcane or divine; it's not tied to the actual class of the person who scribed it.
elonin
05-04-08, 08:49 PM Do note that any appropriate ability score can be used with a scroll
This is incorrect. You would need to emulate the correct ability for that particular scroll. If you are buying the scroll you can control it that way. In either case I'd suppose that when you make the decipher check you get the information about what version of scroll you have.
jaelis
05-04-08, 10:49 PM This is incorrect. You would need to emulate the correct ability for that particular scroll. If you are buying the scroll you can control it that way. In either case I'd suppose that when you make the decipher check you get the information about what version of scroll you have.
I don't believe there's anything in the rules to support that interpretation.

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
* The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
* The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
* The user must have the requisite ability score.

That seems to say that wizards, sorcerers and bards all simply use arcane scrolls, without worrying about who created it.
ToastedAmphibian
05-06-08, 04:21 PM Hmmm.... sorcerers and favored souls eh? Ill have to read up on this and run it past my dm.

Emulate an Ability Score
To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check.

So... if we assume all the answers to the following questions is "Yes" then the argument goes something like this?
Can a sorcerer use a scroll made by a wizard?
Can the sorcerer use his charima score to cast the scroll?
If the scroll is also a bard spell, can a bard cast it using his charisma score also?
So, for any scroll, I can choose any class of the apropriate type that can cast the spell to deterimine what ability score i need?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ToastedAmphibian 04-29-08, 06:12 PM	If you have 5 or more ranks in Spellcraft, you get a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device checks related to scrolls. If you have 5 or more ranks in Decipher Script, you get a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device checks related to scrolls. Do you get these bonuses if you have to emmulate an ability score for a scroll? Say, im an 11th level human character with levels in bard; UMD Ranks: +14 Magical Aptitude: +2 [Or should i take Skill Focus (UMD) instead? Both?] 5 ranks Spellcraft: +2 5 ranks Decipher Script: +2 20 Charisma: +5 Cloak of Charisma +4: +2 Total: +27 I would need to roll a 2 to use a basic 5th level scroll (CL 9) I would also need to make a second check to emulate an ability score of 15, the DC for this would be 30. Would I need to roll a 3, or a 7 for that? I know to alot of you that dosnt seem like a very big diffrence....... But you know how some people are jusssst so incredibly lucky with dice rolls? Well, all thoes people are just stealing all my good dice rolls and, subsiquently, i RARELY get higher than 10, so the extra +4 is kinda important to have if its legal.
narack 04-29-08, 06:52 PM	no, not at all. Task Use Magic Device DC Activate blindly 25 Decipher a written spell 25 + spell level Use a scroll 20 + caster level Use a wand 20 Emulate a class feature 20 Emulate an ability score See text Emulate a race 25 Emulate an alignment 30 Complete UMD desc on SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/skillsAll.html#use-magic-device) emulating an ability is for example let's say we have a lantern of light which need 15 intelligence to use and being an elf. if you don't have the 15 intel you need to make the UMD check and another UMD check if your not an elf. These item are rare. The most common ones are class item and alignment item Even if there is not alot of them.
ToastedAmphibian 04-29-08, 07:38 PM	no, not at all. emulating an ability is for example let's say we have a lantern of light which need 15 intelligence to use and being an elf. if you don't have the 15 intel you need to make the UMD check and another UMD check if your not an elf. These item are rare. The most common ones are class item and alignment item Even if there is not alot of them. You confuse me.... Use a Scroll If you are casting a spell from a scroll, you have to decipher it first. Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don’t have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
jaelis 04-29-08, 08:21 PM	I'd probably say that the bonus did not apply the "emulate an ability" usage, but it could go either way. Of course, that whole thing is confusing anyway since it's not exactly obvious what ability you are supposed to be emulating. (Who's to say there isn't a Dex-based arcane caster somewhere that you could emulate?)
narack 04-30-08, 08:05 AM	You confuse me.... Yes scroll can be tricky because i always forget divine scroll and that not all UMD user have high intel. What it mean is you have a UMD check for usign the scroll. Then one if you have have the stat for. For example you try to cast a Fireball scroll. You need a 20 + 5(caster level) UMD check to cast the spell and you need a stat that allow you to cast the spell. Fireball is a 3rd level so 10+3 = 13. So to cast that fireball you need ABSOLUTELY (if you can't cast arcane spell ) UMD dc 25 and second check (only if you dont already have 13 in Charisma or Intelligence) UMD dc 13 (roll as UMD check - 15 must be greater than 13) i get use to always think of a rogue when someone talk of UMD and my rogue always have 18 int so up to level 8 spells without ability check for arcane spell only, anyway my rogues never bother cast divine scroll, wand are more efficient
ToastedAmphibian 04-30-08, 03:46 PM	Actually, im making a Bard/SublimeChord/WarWeaver I dont think i can use a wand with teh weave, but since casting a spell from a scroll is done "Like you cast it normally" i think i can probably use that. There are alot of 1-3 level wizard spells, and a few 1-5 level druid/cleric spells that could be usefull to have. However, 15 Int, 15 Wis, and 18 charisma is not a point buy that exactly makes me happy... So the common consensus is that decipher script and spellcraft do not help me emulate an ability score to use a scroll?
Dheran 05-04-08, 09:15 AM	So the common consensus is that decipher script and spellcraft do not help me emulate an ability score to use a scroll? Yes, that's correct. Do note that any appropriate ability score can be used with a scroll. Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards can all create arcane scrolls, and thus you can use either Intelligence or Charisma, whichever works better for you. Similarly, Druids, Clerics, and Favored Souls can all create divine scrolls, and thus you can choose either Wisdom or Charisma as the appropriate ability for any divine scroll. Once a scroll is scribed it's simply arcane or divine; it's not tied to the actual class of the person who scribed it.
elonin 05-04-08, 08:49 PM	Do note that any appropriate ability score can be used with a scroll This is incorrect. You would need to emulate the correct ability for that particular scroll. If you are buying the scroll you can control it that way. In either case I'd suppose that when you make the decipher check you get the information about what version of scroll you have.
jaelis 05-04-08, 10:49 PM	This is incorrect. You would need to emulate the correct ability for that particular scroll. If you are buying the scroll you can control it that way. In either case I'd suppose that when you make the decipher check you get the information about what version of scroll you have. I don't believe there's anything in the rules to support that interpretation. To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements. * The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.) * The user must have the spell on his or her class list. * The user must have the requisite ability score. That seems to say that wizards, sorcerers and bards all simply use arcane scrolls, without worrying about who created it.
ToastedAmphibian 05-06-08, 04:21 PM	Hmmm.... sorcerers and favored souls eh? Ill have to read up on this and run it past my dm. Emulate an Ability Score To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check. So... if we assume all the answers to the following questions is "Yes" then the argument goes something like this? Can a sorcerer use a scroll made by a wizard? Can the sorcerer use his charima score to cast the scroll? If the scroll is also a bard spell, can a bard cast it using his charisma score also? So, for any scroll, I can choose any class of the apropriate type that can cast the spell to deterimine what ability score i need?