UMD for Wizard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

UMD for Wizard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thurilien Lindoriad
12-07-07, 02:24 AM Hi all,
I have a wizard on his way to loremaster. He has lots of skill points, and UMD is a class skill for loremasters so I could max it out without too much trouble. However, adding to my knowledge skills would be more "in character" for this particular wizard, so I'm leaning that way. But I just wanted to check in and see if there are any super-handy uses of UMD for a wizard. Wands of CLW, Lesser Restoration, and Silence are nice, yes, but is there anything less obvious that a wizard of level 8 and above would really love to have at his disposal? New territory for me.
Thanks!
Bloodsoul
12-07-07, 04:39 AM If I remember correctly, UMD should allow you to use items that oppose your alignment without hassle.
Consul Vido
12-07-07, 09:56 AM With Use Magic Device, you can indeed use items meant for different alignments. It's called Emulate Alignment.

There is also Emulate Race, which would allow you to use any item that requires a specific race.

And Emulate class feature, which would let you "pretend" to have certain class features of another class for the purpose of using a magic item.

I'm not familiar with many items that are restricted by those last two, but it might be worth looking into.
PhaedrusXY
12-07-07, 12:00 PM If I remember correctly, UMD should allow you to use items that oppose your alignment without hassle.Wizards can already do that. Clerics and druids are the ones with those limitations.

The best thing to do with UMD on your wizard is hand your familiar some wands. It uses your skills, also. If your DM says "You can't do that! It doesn't have any hands!", then cast Alter Self on it first (or take Improved Familiar). :P

A familiar with a wand of Dimension Door and a readied action to whisk you both away if attacked is pretty handy...
Damned slayer
12-07-07, 12:44 PM The best thing to do with UMD on your wizard is hand your familiar some wands. It uses your skills, also. If your DM says "You can't do that! It doesn't have any hands!", then cast Alter Self on it first (or take Improved Familiar). :P

A familiar with a wand of Dimension Door and a readied action to whisk you both away if attacked is pretty handy...

Nice one, I really like it tho I find it a bit abusive lol
ObscureInfo
12-08-07, 05:03 AM O.K. so you are 8th level. Now my question to you is, do you have any magical items that you have not be able to use? That is the big question with UMD.

The power of UMD lies in the fact that many treasure hoards are effectively random, so you often will get things that are race or class specific. (or alignment-specific) UMD allows you to bypass this.

For an arcane spellcaster, UMD mostly allows you to ultilize divine magic without needing to multiclass. So you can be the field medic with wands of cure light wounds or cure moderate wounds. Or if you can, buy scrolls of divine spells. In our campaign, the DM always has the church you are buying them from want to know exactly why you are buying said spell and what exactly you intend to do with it. That can be a major hassle.

I had a sorcerer with some extra skill points and I put them in UMD mostly for flavor purposes. With a cleric in the party, I really didn't get a chance to use them all that much. And with a rogue maxxing his UMD, I hardly used it at all. (He was the guinea pig for "trying unknown magical items out") But if you are playing without a divine caster, particularly a cleric, UMD can be most useful.

As a loremaster in training, I would stick to the Knowledge skills. I don't think you'll use UMD enough to make it worth your while.
MnemonicSV
12-09-07, 02:07 AM Another handy use of UMD for a wizard is that he can now use spell-completion and spell-trigger devices to fulfill spell requirements for magic items he normally couldn't possibly create.

For example: If your wizard knows the Craft Wand feat, he could use a scroll of CLW (CL1) as the source to create a wand of CLW (CL1), so long as he doesn't fail the UMD check for the scroll. Or, if you had a wand of imbue with spell ability with 18 charges, you could use the Forge Ring feat to craft a ring of minor spell storing, so long as you don't fail those 18 UMD checks.

It does, obviously, get risky making too many UMD checks for this purpose. One failed UMD check, and you're back to the drawing board. But hey, it is at least an option you didn't have before.

*CL = caster level. Not cleric level.
Legdiwena
12-09-07, 02:55 PM Wizards can already do that. Clerics and druids are the ones with those limitations.

As an example, the Book of Vile Deeds. UMD would allow the wizard to use it as if he were evil. Otherwise, he would take the damage if he was not evil.
painfool
12-12-07, 03:57 PM Another handy use of UMD for a wizard is that he can now use spell-completion and spell-trigger devices to fulfill spell requirements for magic items he normally couldn't possibly create.

For example: If your wizard knows the Craft Wand feat, he could use a scroll of CLW (CL1) as the source to create a wand of CLW (CL1), so long as he doesn't fail the UMD check for the scroll. Or, if you had a wand of imbue with spell ability with 18 charges, you could use the Forge Ring feat to craft a ring of minor spell storing, so long as you don't fail those 18 UMD checks.

It does, obviously, get risky making too many UMD checks for this purpose. One failed UMD check, and you're back to the drawing board. But hey, it is at least an option you didn't have before.

*CL = caster level. Not cleric level.

Not to sound like too much of an idiot, but does that really work? Can you craft a wand from a scroll? How do you handle the additional material component requirement of the wand crafting? And what about the long time required - how does a scroll last long enough to fulfill the time needed for the wand?
Legdiwena
12-12-07, 04:00 PM You would need a scroll of the spell for every day in the creation of the wand. Just as if you were preparing the spell yourself or having someone else provide the spell for you.
ToastedAmphibian
12-12-07, 07:33 PM Cure light wounds is a first level spell. Your making a want at caster level 1. That makes the price of a wand of cure light wounds 750GP. Craft wands feat says it takes one day per 1000gp in the price of the item. Soooo, you would need one scroll for each day in the crafting. And as such, you would need ONE scroll of Cure Light Wounds.
Breetai
12-12-07, 09:16 PM Not to sound like too much of an idiot, but does that really work? Can you craft a wand from a scroll? How do you handle the additional material component requirement of the wand crafting? And what about the long time required - how does a scroll last long enough to fulfill the time needed for the wand?

Painfool,

Here's the SRD

"Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)."

He's taking the obvious intent intent like having a cloak of resistance to make another one and doing something stupid with it. You'll find it's the gold standard around here.
MnemonicSV
12-13-07, 02:44 AM Painfool,
He's taking the obvious intent intent like having a cloak of resistance to make another one and doing something stupid with it. You'll find it's the gold standard around here.

Actually, I'm using this:

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

Emphasis mine. Since using the UMD skill to activate the spell trigger/completion item is part of the act of using the item, it's completely acceptable to do so (that is, using UMD does not break the "no other stenuous actions" restriction of creating magic items). Warlocks, with their Deceive Item special ability, really get the most use out of this... though I can see how a loremaster would as well.

However, since a cloak of resistance isn't a spell trigger/completion item you could not use one to create another cloak of resistance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thurilien Lindoriad 12-07-07, 02:24 AM	Hi all, I have a wizard on his way to loremaster. He has lots of skill points, and UMD is a class skill for loremasters so I could max it out without too much trouble. However, adding to my knowledge skills would be more "in character" for this particular wizard, so I'm leaning that way. But I just wanted to check in and see if there are any super-handy uses of UMD for a wizard. Wands of CLW, Lesser Restoration, and Silence are nice, yes, but is there anything less obvious that a wizard of level 8 and above would really love to have at his disposal? New territory for me. Thanks!
Bloodsoul 12-07-07, 04:39 AM	If I remember correctly, UMD should allow you to use items that oppose your alignment without hassle.
Consul Vido 12-07-07, 09:56 AM	With Use Magic Device, you can indeed use items meant for different alignments. It's called Emulate Alignment. There is also Emulate Race, which would allow you to use any item that requires a specific race. And Emulate class feature, which would let you "pretend" to have certain class features of another class for the purpose of using a magic item. I'm not familiar with many items that are restricted by those last two, but it might be worth looking into.
PhaedrusXY 12-07-07, 12:00 PM	If I remember correctly, UMD should allow you to use items that oppose your alignment without hassle.Wizards can already do that. Clerics and druids are the ones with those limitations. The best thing to do with UMD on your wizard is hand your familiar some wands. It uses your skills, also. If your DM says "You can't do that! It doesn't have any hands!", then cast Alter Self on it first (or take Improved Familiar). :P A familiar with a wand of Dimension Door and a readied action to whisk you both away if attacked is pretty handy...
Damned slayer 12-07-07, 12:44 PM	The best thing to do with UMD on your wizard is hand your familiar some wands. It uses your skills, also. If your DM says "You can't do that! It doesn't have any hands!", then cast Alter Self on it first (or take Improved Familiar). :P A familiar with a wand of Dimension Door and a readied action to whisk you both away if attacked is pretty handy... Nice one, I really like it tho I find it a bit abusive lol
ObscureInfo 12-08-07, 05:03 AM	O.K. so you are 8th level. Now my question to you is, do you have any magical items that you have not be able to use? That is the big question with UMD. The power of UMD lies in the fact that many treasure hoards are effectively random, so you often will get things that are race or class specific. (or alignment-specific) UMD allows you to bypass this. For an arcane spellcaster, UMD mostly allows you to ultilize divine magic without needing to multiclass. So you can be the field medic with wands of cure light wounds or cure moderate wounds. Or if you can, buy scrolls of divine spells. In our campaign, the DM always has the church you are buying them from want to know exactly why you are buying said spell and what exactly you intend to do with it. That can be a major hassle. I had a sorcerer with some extra skill points and I put them in UMD mostly for flavor purposes. With a cleric in the party, I really didn't get a chance to use them all that much. And with a rogue maxxing his UMD, I hardly used it at all. (He was the guinea pig for "trying unknown magical items out") But if you are playing without a divine caster, particularly a cleric, UMD can be most useful. As a loremaster in training, I would stick to the Knowledge skills. I don't think you'll use UMD enough to make it worth your while.
MnemonicSV 12-09-07, 02:07 AM	Another handy use of UMD for a wizard is that he can now use spell-completion and spell-trigger devices to fulfill spell requirements for magic items he normally couldn't possibly create. For example: If your wizard knows the Craft Wand feat, he could use a scroll of CLW (CL1) as the source to create a wand of CLW (CL1), so long as he doesn't fail the UMD check for the scroll. Or, if you had a wand of imbue with spell ability with 18 charges, you could use the Forge Ring feat to craft a ring of minor spell storing, so long as you don't fail those 18 UMD checks. It does, obviously, get risky making too many UMD checks for this purpose. One failed UMD check, and you're back to the drawing board. But hey, it is at least an option you didn't have before. *CL = caster level. Not cleric level.
Legdiwena 12-09-07, 02:55 PM	Wizards can already do that. Clerics and druids are the ones with those limitations. As an example, the Book of Vile Deeds. UMD would allow the wizard to use it as if he were evil. Otherwise, he would take the damage if he was not evil.
painfool 12-12-07, 03:57 PM	Another handy use of UMD for a wizard is that he can now use spell-completion and spell-trigger devices to fulfill spell requirements for magic items he normally couldn't possibly create. For example: If your wizard knows the Craft Wand feat, he could use a scroll of CLW (CL1) as the source to create a wand of CLW (CL1), so long as he doesn't fail the UMD check for the scroll. Or, if you had a wand of imbue with spell ability with 18 charges, you could use the Forge Ring feat to craft a ring of minor spell storing, so long as you don't fail those 18 UMD checks. It does, obviously, get risky making too many UMD checks for this purpose. One failed UMD check, and you're back to the drawing board. But hey, it is at least an option you didn't have before. *CL = caster level. Not cleric level. Not to sound like too much of an idiot, but does that really work? Can you craft a wand from a scroll? How do you handle the additional material component requirement of the wand crafting? And what about the long time required - how does a scroll last long enough to fulfill the time needed for the wand?
Legdiwena 12-12-07, 04:00 PM	You would need a scroll of the spell for every day in the creation of the wand. Just as if you were preparing the spell yourself or having someone else provide the spell for you.
ToastedAmphibian 12-12-07, 07:33 PM	Cure light wounds is a first level spell. Your making a want at caster level 1. That makes the price of a wand of cure light wounds 750GP. Craft wands feat says it takes one day per 1000gp in the price of the item. Soooo, you would need one scroll for each day in the crafting. And as such, you would need ONE scroll of Cure Light Wounds.
Breetai 12-12-07, 09:16 PM	Not to sound like too much of an idiot, but does that really work? Can you craft a wand from a scroll? How do you handle the additional material component requirement of the wand crafting? And what about the long time required - how does a scroll last long enough to fulfill the time needed for the wand? Painfool, Here's the SRD "Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)." He's taking the obvious intent intent like having a cloak of resistance to make another one and doing something stupid with it. You'll find it's the gold standard around here.
MnemonicSV 12-13-07, 02:44 AM	Painfool, He's taking the obvious intent intent like having a cloak of resistance to make another one and doing something stupid with it. You'll find it's the gold standard around here. Actually, I'm using this: A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite. Emphasis mine. Since using the UMD skill to activate the spell trigger/completion item is part of the act of using the item, it's completely acceptable to do so (that is, using UMD does not break the "no other stenuous actions" restriction of creating magic items). Warlocks, with their Deceive Item special ability, really get the most use out of this... though I can see how a loremaster would as well. However, since a cloak of resistance isn't a spell trigger/completion item you could not use one to create another cloak of resistance.