UMD + Knowstones/Runestaffs [Archive] - Wizards Community

UMD + Knowstones/Runestaffs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werwoelfin
10-12-07, 11:53 AM Let's say you play a Spell Thief of 4th level or higher and in possesion of a Knowstone or a Runestaff that contains a spell not on the spell thiefs spell list (e.g. any necromancy spell).

Can you use the UMD skill to use the Knowstone/Runestaff, so you can cast the spell using your spell slots?
jaelis
10-12-07, 11:58 AM I would definitely say yes. You can use UMD to activate a wand of spell not on your list, this seems very similar.
Ninja_Ferret
10-12-07, 01:27 PM It would probably be emulating a class (or class ability). Right?
Mojo_Rat
10-12-07, 05:25 PM I think the problem with the Runestaff is you need something to Sacrafice. If you find yourself needing to use UMD to use a runestaff You likely dont have the necessary sacrafice requirement.

An example ive seen given before is.

If you find a holy Cup and the requirement to use it is 'must posses the ability to turn undead' then you can use UMD to fool the cup into thinking you have the class ability 'turn or rebuke undead'

However if the holy cup has 'requires you to expend a turn attempt' to use it i think you cant do UMD to do it because while you can fool it into thinking you have the ability you cant actualy pay the 'cost'

The Same issue comes up with runestaves.

However all of that is said specifically with regards to UMD i havent ever played a spell thief and do not know their mechanics. But if they can pay the runestaffs cost then they can use the staff.
jaelis
10-12-07, 05:40 PM The OP is not suggesting to activate the runestaff as a non-caster. He will use one of his spellthief spell slots.

The question is just whether he can activate the runestaff if the spell isn't on his class list.
Kyuketsukiouji
10-12-07, 08:03 PM Knowstone, no. Runestaff, yes.

Knowstones have the 24 hour attunement clause, so, unless you can stay awake all night to emulate class feature, you can't use it.

The runestaff doesn't have that clause, so you can use it. Remember, though, that you have to attune to the runestaff when you prepare or ready spells (Magic item Compedium, p. 224), so you'll have to do that in the morning, and then do your UMD rolls every hour to remain attuned (Player's Handbook, p. 85).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werwoelfin 10-12-07, 11:53 AM	Let's say you play a Spell Thief of 4th level or higher and in possesion of a Knowstone or a Runestaff that contains a spell not on the spell thiefs spell list (e.g. any necromancy spell). Can you use the UMD skill to use the Knowstone/Runestaff, so you can cast the spell using your spell slots?
jaelis 10-12-07, 11:58 AM	I would definitely say yes. You can use UMD to activate a wand of spell not on your list, this seems very similar.
Ninja_Ferret 10-12-07, 01:27 PM	It would probably be emulating a class (or class ability). Right?
Mojo_Rat 10-12-07, 05:25 PM	I think the problem with the Runestaff is you need something to Sacrafice. If you find yourself needing to use UMD to use a runestaff You likely dont have the necessary sacrafice requirement. An example ive seen given before is. If you find a holy Cup and the requirement to use it is 'must posses the ability to turn undead' then you can use UMD to fool the cup into thinking you have the class ability 'turn or rebuke undead' However if the holy cup has 'requires you to expend a turn attempt' to use it i think you cant do UMD to do it because while you can fool it into thinking you have the ability you cant actualy pay the 'cost' The Same issue comes up with runestaves. However all of that is said specifically with regards to UMD i havent ever played a spell thief and do not know their mechanics. But if they can pay the runestaffs cost then they can use the staff.
jaelis 10-12-07, 05:40 PM	The OP is not suggesting to activate the runestaff as a non-caster. He will use one of his spellthief spell slots. The question is just whether he can activate the runestaff if the spell isn't on his class list.
Kyuketsukiouji 10-12-07, 08:03 PM	Knowstone, no. Runestaff, yes. Knowstones have the 24 hour attunement clause, so, unless you can stay awake all night to emulate class feature, you can't use it. The runestaff doesn't have that clause, so you can use it. Remember, though, that you have to attune to the runestaff when you prepare or ready spells (Magic item Compedium, p. 224), so you'll have to do that in the morning, and then do your UMD rolls every hour to remain attuned (Player's Handbook, p. 85).