UMD Taking 10 [Archive] - Wizards Community

UMD Taking 10 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SpoonyBard
04-23-07, 03:42 PM Other than taking levels in the Warlock class, what methods can allow a character to take 10 on UMD checks?

The character in question has 32 charisma and will able to take a general feat next level, if that's the quickest way about it.
TheWalkingLost
04-23-07, 03:47 PM What class are you? Cause rogue makes quick work of it with Skill Mastery.
SpoonyBard
04-23-07, 03:48 PM What class are you? Cause rogue makes quick work of it with Skill Mastery.

Succubus. XD
tarkin
04-23-07, 03:52 PM Skill Mastery, on of the special abilities offered to Rogues at 10/13/16/19 level
DreadArchon
04-23-07, 03:53 PM Skill Mastery doesn't let you Take 10 with UMD.

Anyway, since 1 isn't auto-fail on skill checks, the best I can think of is to get you UMD really high. Skill Focus, synergy from Spellcraft, that feat that gives you +2, high charisma, etc.
TheWalkingLost
04-23-07, 03:56 PM Skill Mastery doesn't let you Take 10 with UMD.

uh, why not?
TheWalkingLost
04-23-07, 03:57 PM Succubus. XD

::Deep Breath:: ...

Oh
SpoonyBard
04-23-07, 04:29 PM Well it's not MY character. My character's an Incubus Warshaper.

This is for his wife.
Merestil Haye
04-23-07, 04:45 PM You can't take 10 with UMD using the Rogue ability because the ban on taking 10 is a rule specific to the skill. The Rogue's Skill Mastery allows the character to take 10 on skills when they normally could not owing to stress, distraction or threat. This does not mean that other reasons - such as the rule in the UMD skill - cannot prevent the character from taking 10.

Just to spread further doom and gloom, the Warlock can only take 10 on UMD when deceiving an item.

The Artificer may also allow it - I can't check as I don't have the Eberron books.
Vrellum
04-23-07, 04:48 PM I agree, skill mastery does not apply to UMD checks. See the FAQ:

Can a rogue with skill mastery take 10 on a Use Magic
Device check?
No. The rogue’s skill mastery class feature states that “she
may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally
prevent her from doing so.” This only applies to skills that
allow a character to take 10 in nonstressful situations; if a skill
simply doesn’t allow a character to take 10 under any
circumstances (such as Use Magic Device), skill mastery
provides no benefit
Jaxgaret
04-23-07, 07:41 PM Anyway, since 1 isn't auto-fail on skill checks, the best I can think of is to get you UMD really high. Skill Focus, synergy from Spellcraft, that feat that gives you +2 [EDIT: Magical Aptitude], high charisma, etc.

A Circlet of Persuasion provides a +3 to all Cha-based checks for a paltry 4,500 gp.

And if you use the magic item creation rules, you can create Greater Circlets of Persuasion or, even better, Circlets of UMD. A +20 Circlet of UMD costs only 40,000 gp.
DreadArchon
04-24-07, 11:51 AM You could also dip a single level of Marshal, thus allowing you to take your Cha bonus as a bonus to your Cha bonus. (Oddly enough.)
Blas de Lezo
04-25-07, 09:27 AM Warlock (4th lv), Rogue Skill Mastery (10th lv), Artificer (4th lv)
Davro
04-25-07, 09:33 AM Unless I'm out of date on my Errata...

The Artificer (from ECS) gets skill mastery at Lv13, allowing the taking of 10 on Spellcraft and UMD.
Kresalak
04-25-07, 09:48 AM You can't take 10 with UMD using the Rogue ability because the ban on taking 10 is a rule specific to the skill. The Rogue's Skill Mastery allows the character to take 10 on skills when they normally could not owing to stress, distraction or threat. This does not mean that other reasons - such as the rule in the UMD skill - cannot prevent the character from taking 10.

Just to spread further doom and gloom, the Warlock can only take 10 on UMD when deceiving an item.

The Artificer may also allow it - I can't check as I don't have the Eberron books.

The Artificer has the same ability with the same text, as does the Warlock (only his ability has a different name.) There is no possible way to read it that allows the Artificer to do so while disallowing the Rogue.

If the Succubus is the crappy LA +6 version from the MM, then Rogue is a bad choice. If you're nice and have it be an 8th level class with 8d6 HD, medium BAB, all good saves, 6+ skills, and class features of "+4 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +10 Cha, as well as all the succubus powers", then Rogue can still be a good choice, though you won't get Mastery until level 18.
Bob Loblaw
04-25-07, 10:03 AM The Artificer has the same ability with the same text, as does the Warlock (only his ability has a different name.) There is no possible way to read it that allows the Artificer to do so while disallowing the Rogue.

Actually you can read it to mean that the artificer and not the rogue can Take 10. First, the Artificer specifically states Use Magic Device. Second, nothing in the Skill Mastery states that it overrides the Special note of not being able to Take 10 on Use Magic Device. Skill Mastery only applies when you are distracted not at all times.

The FAQ supports this.
Kresalak
04-25-07, 10:10 AM The Artificer actually gets Skill Mastery, though. The only difference is that his Skill Mastery is preselected, while the Rogue's is open to any skills. Either they both can do it, or neither can.
Davro
04-25-07, 10:33 AM The artificier from the ECS specifically states that its skill mastery is an exception to the "Can't take 10 with UMD".

Bottom of page 32, top of page 33. Eberron Campaign Setting.
Merestil Haye
04-25-07, 10:39 AM The Artificer actually gets Skill Mastery, though. The only difference is that his Skill Mastery is preselected, while the Rogue's is open to any skills. Either they both can do it, or neither can.It is explicitly stated in the FAQ that rogues cannot Take 10 on UMD. This is not an answer where the designers equivocated.Can a rogue with skill mastery take 10 on a Use Magic Device check?
No. The rogue’s skill mastery class feature states that “she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.” This only applies to skills that allow a character to take 10 in nonstressful situations; if a skill simply doesn’t allow a character to take 10 under any circumstances (such as Use Magic Device), skill mastery provides no benefit.If you read the artificers's class ability, the last sentence explicitly states that it overrides the prohibition on taking 10 with UMD. This is not present in the Rogue's ability.

The two abilities are not identical, despite the name.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SpoonyBard 04-23-07, 03:42 PM	Other than taking levels in the Warlock class, what methods can allow a character to take 10 on UMD checks? The character in question has 32 charisma and will able to take a general feat next level, if that's the quickest way about it.
TheWalkingLost 04-23-07, 03:47 PM	What class are you? Cause rogue makes quick work of it with Skill Mastery.
SpoonyBard 04-23-07, 03:48 PM	What class are you? Cause rogue makes quick work of it with Skill Mastery. Succubus. XD
tarkin 04-23-07, 03:52 PM	Skill Mastery, on of the special abilities offered to Rogues at 10/13/16/19 level
DreadArchon 04-23-07, 03:53 PM	Skill Mastery doesn't let you Take 10 with UMD. Anyway, since 1 isn't auto-fail on skill checks, the best I can think of is to get you UMD really high. Skill Focus, synergy from Spellcraft, that feat that gives you +2, high charisma, etc.
TheWalkingLost 04-23-07, 03:56 PM	Skill Mastery doesn't let you Take 10 with UMD. uh, why not?
TheWalkingLost 04-23-07, 03:57 PM	Succubus. XD ::Deep Breath:: ... Oh
SpoonyBard 04-23-07, 04:29 PM	Well it's not MY character. My character's an Incubus Warshaper. This is for his wife.
Merestil Haye 04-23-07, 04:45 PM	You can't take 10 with UMD using the Rogue ability because the ban on taking 10 is a rule specific to the skill. The Rogue's Skill Mastery allows the character to take 10 on skills when they normally could not owing to stress, distraction or threat. This does not mean that other reasons - such as the rule in the UMD skill - cannot prevent the character from taking 10. Just to spread further doom and gloom, the Warlock can only take 10 on UMD when deceiving an item. The Artificer may also allow it - I can't check as I don't have the Eberron books.
Vrellum 04-23-07, 04:48 PM	I agree, skill mastery does not apply to UMD checks. See the FAQ: Can a rogue with skill mastery take 10 on a Use Magic Device check? No. The rogue’s skill mastery class feature states that “she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.” This only applies to skills that allow a character to take 10 in nonstressful situations; if a skill simply doesn’t allow a character to take 10 under any circumstances (such as Use Magic Device), skill mastery provides no benefit
Jaxgaret 04-23-07, 07:41 PM	Anyway, since 1 isn't auto-fail on skill checks, the best I can think of is to get you UMD really high. Skill Focus, synergy from Spellcraft, that feat that gives you +2 [EDIT: Magical Aptitude], high charisma, etc. A Circlet of Persuasion provides a +3 to all Cha-based checks for a paltry 4,500 gp. And if you use the magic item creation rules, you can create Greater Circlets of Persuasion or, even better, Circlets of UMD. A +20 Circlet of UMD costs only 40,000 gp.
DreadArchon 04-24-07, 11:51 AM	You could also dip a single level of Marshal, thus allowing you to take your Cha bonus as a bonus to your Cha bonus. (Oddly enough.)
Blas de Lezo 04-25-07, 09:27 AM	Warlock (4th lv), Rogue Skill Mastery (10th lv), Artificer (4th lv)
Davro 04-25-07, 09:33 AM	Unless I'm out of date on my Errata... The Artificer (from ECS) gets skill mastery at Lv13, allowing the taking of 10 on Spellcraft and UMD.
Kresalak 04-25-07, 09:48 AM	You can't take 10 with UMD using the Rogue ability because the ban on taking 10 is a rule specific to the skill. The Rogue's Skill Mastery allows the character to take 10 on skills when they normally could not owing to stress, distraction or threat. This does not mean that other reasons - such as the rule in the UMD skill - cannot prevent the character from taking 10. Just to spread further doom and gloom, the Warlock can only take 10 on UMD when deceiving an item. The Artificer may also allow it - I can't check as I don't have the Eberron books. The Artificer has the same ability with the same text, as does the Warlock (only his ability has a different name.) There is no possible way to read it that allows the Artificer to do so while disallowing the Rogue. If the Succubus is the crappy LA +6 version from the MM, then Rogue is a bad choice. If you're nice and have it be an 8th level class with 8d6 HD, medium BAB, all good saves, 6+ skills, and class features of "+4 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +10 Cha, as well as all the succubus powers", then Rogue can still be a good choice, though you won't get Mastery until level 18.
Bob Loblaw 04-25-07, 10:03 AM	The Artificer has the same ability with the same text, as does the Warlock (only his ability has a different name.) There is no possible way to read it that allows the Artificer to do so while disallowing the Rogue. Actually you can read it to mean that the artificer and not the rogue can Take 10. First, the Artificer specifically states Use Magic Device. Second, nothing in the Skill Mastery states that it overrides the Special note of not being able to Take 10 on Use Magic Device. Skill Mastery only applies when you are distracted not at all times. The FAQ supports this.
Kresalak 04-25-07, 10:10 AM	The Artificer actually gets Skill Mastery, though. The only difference is that his Skill Mastery is preselected, while the Rogue's is open to any skills. Either they both can do it, or neither can.
Davro 04-25-07, 10:33 AM	The artificier from the ECS specifically states that its skill mastery is an exception to the "Can't take 10 with UMD". Bottom of page 32, top of page 33. Eberron Campaign Setting.
Merestil Haye 04-25-07, 10:39 AM	The Artificer actually gets Skill Mastery, though. The only difference is that his Skill Mastery is preselected, while the Rogue's is open to any skills. Either they both can do it, or neither can.It is explicitly stated in the FAQ that rogues cannot Take 10 on UMD. This is not an answer where the designers equivocated.Can a rogue with skill mastery take 10 on a Use Magic Device check? No. The rogue’s skill mastery class feature states that “she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.” This only applies to skills that allow a character to take 10 in nonstressful situations; if a skill simply doesn’t allow a character to take 10 under any circumstances (such as Use Magic Device), skill mastery provides no benefit.If you read the artificers's class ability, the last sentence explicitly states that it overrides the prohibition on taking 10 with UMD. This is not present in the Rogue's ability. The two abilities are not identical, despite the name.