Unarmed Strike damage increase? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unarmed Strike damage increase? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jedi_Master_Luke
02-04-08, 07:27 PM You see, I want to play a charater who's main weapon is his fists. But I don't want to be a Monk. Is there a way to improve a character's unarmed damage, without having to be a Monk? I think I saw a feat that did this somewhere, which is why I put it here.
Fireclave
02-04-08, 07:32 PM Superior Unarmed Strike in the Tome of Battle is what you're looking for.
Jedi_Master_Luke
02-04-08, 07:39 PM What exactly does that do?
Krusk
02-04-08, 07:54 PM Improves your unarmed strike without having to be a monk.

Or if you are a monk you add a few to your monks level. Very similar to a monks belt.
Jedi_Master_Luke
02-04-08, 08:04 PM Oh, cool. How much exactly does it increase? Sorry to be troublesome, but my LGS does not have ToB in stock so I can't go look.
Salla
02-04-08, 08:17 PM Oh, cool. How much exactly does it increase? Sorry to be troublesome, but my LGS does not have ToB in stock so I can't go look.

Posting said information would violate the CoC.
Jedi_Master_Luke
02-04-08, 08:44 PM Oh, sorry. Can you PM it to me, or does that also conflict with the CoC?
Krusk
02-04-08, 11:32 PM Oh, sorry. Can you PM it to me, or does that also conflict with the CoC?

Also against CoC. There is a reason i was so vauge.
Essex
02-05-08, 10:35 AM While I won't give exact answers (for previously noted reasons), I'll state that taking the feat allows you to inflict slightly greater damage than a normal unarmed character at level 3 (the minimum level at which you can meet the BAB requirement), while granting more damage than a 10th level Monk before reaching level 20. I personally think it is an excellent feat for anybody who wants to fight barehanded without taking Monk levels.
The_Normal_Anomaly
02-05-08, 01:15 PM I have heard that a monk's belt (DMG), improved natural attack (MM), and superior unarmed strike could yield results like what you seem to be hunting.
ToastedAmphibian
02-05-08, 05:25 PM Superior unarmed strike and monks belt dont stack. Improved natural attack would stack with either the belt or the feat, rasing your highest value up one notch.

Also, when Prestige classess get put into WoTC books, they often get cut into smaller peices. Sometimes this results in odd things (See the Invisible Blade entry requierments)

There is a website called "The Waking Lands" that has these prestige classes in their original 10 level progressions (Master Thrower and Invisible Blade were actually the same class)

My point, however, is that the 10 level reaping mauler class is actually quite good (As opposed to the 5 level one from the book, which is rubbish) At level 1, 5 and 9 it increases your damage dice by one size. This SHOULD stack with superior unarmed strike and improved natural attack... but that would be a call for your DM.

http://wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm
wonlee76
02-05-08, 05:48 PM Superior unarmed strike and monks belt dont stack. Improved natural attack would stack with either the belt or the feat, rasing your highest value up one notch.

I don't think INA works with Superior Unarmed Strike but I could be wrong about that. I believe INA works with a monk's unarmed strike because of the fact that a monk's unarmed strike can be enhanced by spells or effects that would normally apply to a natural attack or manufactured weapon.

SUS doesn't give you this but its been a while since I read the exact wording behind the feat. The reasoning behind it is that an unarmed strike is not a natural attack which is a defined term and set number of attack types. Monk's unarmed strike is an exception to the general rule.
Paranoid Android
02-05-08, 06:28 PM I don't think INA works with Superior Unarmed Strike but I could be wrong about that. I believe INA works with a monk's unarmed strike because of the fact that a monk's unarmed strike can be enhanced by spells or effects that would normally apply to a natural attack or manufactured weapon.

SUS doesn't give you this but its been a while since I read the exact wording behind the feat. The reasoning behind it is that an unarmed strike is not a natural attack which is a defined term and set number of attack types. Monk's unarmed strike is an exception to the general rule.

INA works only with a monk, because the monk's unarmed strike is considered a natural weapon, not simply an unarmed attack, so you have to be a monk to take it. Which kind of makes not taking monk levels in getting it hard.

Main 3.5 FAQ pg 38, for people's reference, btw.
CBeyond
02-05-08, 07:28 PM Superior unarmed strike and monks belt dont stack.Why do these not stack? Thanks!
ToastedAmphibian
02-05-08, 08:22 PM Why do these not stack? Thanks!
Well, you have two items.
Item A says: Your unarmed Damage is X where X is the unarmed damage of a level 5 monk of yoru size.

Item B says: Your unarmed Damage is Y where Y is a function of your level.

They tottaly override eachother.
(Yes i know one isnt really an ITEM)

INA works only with a monk, because the monk's unarmed strike is considered a natural weapon
Yes well alot of people feel that any unarmed strike is a natural weapon. I dont know if i agree with that or not, so obviously ask your DM. At anyrate at level one of the 10lvl reaping mauler class, A reaping mauler's unarmed strike damage is treated both as a manufactured and a natural weapon. So if you go that way you should be fine.
Legdiwena
02-06-08, 08:12 PM Could also look at Fist of the Forest from CChamp.
Wih
02-06-08, 10:02 PM Frostrager, from Frostburn, and here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040911a&page=3).
Prince_of_Parkness
02-08-08, 12:21 PM Id say a feat that allows you to do 1d8 damaged unarmed would fine, 1d6 is too low and 1d10 is a bit ott
dawnbringer
02-08-08, 02:45 PM Also against CoC. There is a reason i was so vauge.

PMing is not against CoC.
Legdiwena
02-08-08, 02:51 PM Giving out the information in anyway is against the CoC.
dawnbringer
02-08-08, 03:41 PM not really. As long as you can do it one on one, you can give out information.

I've had plenty of people give me information from a book I do not own.
Legdiwena
02-08-08, 03:58 PM You CAn do anything you want, it's still illegal.
Prince_of_Parkness
02-08-08, 04:27 PM You CAn do anything you want, it's still illegal.

True, but the moderators dont mind if you just give little pieces of information. Hell someone uploaded the entier vow of poverty feat and they havnt deleted the thread
Legdiwena
02-08-08, 04:37 PM That was an archived thread from 3 years ago, amazed that it hasn't been deleted due to CoC, but meh.
Krusk
02-08-08, 10:49 PM not really. As long as you can do it one on one, you can give out information.

I've had plenty of people give me information from a book I do not own.

You can do whatever you want, and if you don't get caught there is no problem, I guess. That dosn't make it legal/right.
Squaba
02-08-08, 11:07 PM Could someone copy the part of the CoC where it says you cant post information from books and paste it up here?
Prince_of_Parkness
02-09-08, 06:48 AM Could someone copy the part of the CoC where it says you cant post information from books and paste it up here?

Coc aside its still violating copy right laws, since it isnt open game content, but as I said no body minds if you just give small pieces of information even if it is technically illiagal
Prince_of_Parkness
02-09-08, 06:53 AM That dosn't make it legal/right.

Its not legal, but in this case its arguably right. I dont expect someone to go to a book shop and finger thru a bok just to find out how many levels better one feat makes your unarmed damage. If someone asks me how the point buy system works Ill tell them. If someone asks me what the feat devil's luck does, Ill tell them. If someone asks me "Material to make a horde of evil villains" ill tell them to go buy the book
Krusk
02-09-08, 03:42 PM Its not legal, but in this case its arguably right. I dont expect someone to go to a book shop and finger thru a bok just to find out how many levels better one feat makes your unarmed damage. If someone asks me how the point buy system works Ill tell them. If someone asks me what the feat devil's luck does, Ill tell them. If someone asks me "Material to make a horde of evil villains" ill tell them to go buy the book

Right is subjective. You tell him if you want to.
Roderick_BR
02-09-08, 09:45 PM I'd say that posting it through instant message or email is not illegal. Heck, is it illegal to walk up to a person face to face and say "I found this cool feat that gives you this and that"? It's only illegal to post it in public areas. PMs would be a stretch, but it's safe not to use it. So, find a friend with the book, and that's it.

Additionally, if you do get the Tome of Battle, look up the Sword Sage class, and pick the unarmed variant, that effectively makes you a non-sucky monk.
InkBlot
02-11-08, 02:10 PM Superior Unarmed Strike can be take at 3rd level at the earliest. It lets your unarmed strikes deal as much damage as a halfling Monk.

Tome Of Battle in general is very good for unarmed brawlers. Strikes and Boosts add extra damage or other effects, so that you depend less on having a big weapon for damage. There are maneuvers which can do anything a monk can do, except for spell resistance, as well as many things a monk should be able to do but can't (like throw people). This fact lets you mix-and-match maneuvers with any* class you want, to create exactly the kind of unarmed warrior you envision; everything from the drunken dwarf barroom brawler who relies on nothing more than his own grit and guts, to the mystical ninja master of ki.

My point, however, is that the 10 level reaping mauler class is actually quite good (As opposed to the 5 level one from the book, which is rubbish) At level 1, 5 and 9 it increases your damage dice by one size. This SHOULD stack with superior unarmed strike and improved natural attack... but that would be a call for your DM.

http://wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm

The Walking Land's version of Reaping Mauler retains the one aspect that makes it useless to a grappler. It requires Clever Wrestling, which itself has the prerequisite of being medium or smaller. The single most effective thing for a grappler to do is increase her size. If a Reaping Mauler increases in size, she ceases to qualify for her prestige class and loses all the class abilities it granted her.

Reaping Mauler is a trap, unless you houserule it.

*Maneuvers and Stances can be taken as feats. They're Fighter bonus feats, to boot. The three classes from Tome Of Battle -- Crusader (paladin/marshal/tank), Swordsage (duelist/ninja/monk), and Warblade (fighter/barbarian/duelist/marshal) -- just get more and higher level maneuvers which they can use more often.
ToastedAmphibian
02-11-08, 08:40 PM The Walking Land's version of Reaping Mauler retains the one aspect that makes it useless to a grappler. It requires Clever Wrestling, which itself has the prerequisite of being medium or smaller. The single most effective thing for a grappler to do is increase her size. If a Reaping Mauler increases in size, she ceases to qualify for her prestige class and loses all the class abilities it granted her.

Thats debateable. Obviously, the feat reqs are pretty stupid.... it gives you improved grapple as a bonus feat? Really, if you want to BE a grappler, isnt that usually the FIRST FEAT you take?

Now, granted, if you no longer meet the pre-req for a prestige class, you lose its benifits. However, reaping mauler dosnt require you to be medium or small. It requiers you to have clever wrestling.

If your no longer medium or small, you lose the USE of clever wrestling, as well as the USE of any feats that have clever wrestling as a pre-req. However, you do still HAVE the feat, which is all that reaping mauler needs. All it does is force you to take a useless* feat and, if yoru naturally large, find someone to shrink you a few sizes when you level up, just long enough to take the feat.

*Clever Wrestling is good for people who want to get OUT of a grapple... Kind of a good backup incase you get over your head i suppose, but not really super good for a grappler.

The main addition of the 10lvl class is that it makes you more dangerous in a grapple, because it actually increases your damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jedi_Master_Luke 02-04-08, 07:27 PM	You see, I want to play a charater who's main weapon is his fists. But I don't want to be a Monk. Is there a way to improve a character's unarmed damage, without having to be a Monk? I think I saw a feat that did this somewhere, which is why I put it here.
Fireclave 02-04-08, 07:32 PM	Superior Unarmed Strike in the Tome of Battle is what you're looking for.
Jedi_Master_Luke 02-04-08, 07:39 PM	What exactly does that do?
Krusk 02-04-08, 07:54 PM	Improves your unarmed strike without having to be a monk. Or if you are a monk you add a few to your monks level. Very similar to a monks belt.
Jedi_Master_Luke 02-04-08, 08:04 PM	Oh, cool. How much exactly does it increase? Sorry to be troublesome, but my LGS does not have ToB in stock so I can't go look.
Salla 02-04-08, 08:17 PM	Oh, cool. How much exactly does it increase? Sorry to be troublesome, but my LGS does not have ToB in stock so I can't go look. Posting said information would violate the CoC.
Jedi_Master_Luke 02-04-08, 08:44 PM	Oh, sorry. Can you PM it to me, or does that also conflict with the CoC?
Krusk 02-04-08, 11:32 PM	Oh, sorry. Can you PM it to me, or does that also conflict with the CoC? Also against CoC. There is a reason i was so vauge.
Essex 02-05-08, 10:35 AM	While I won't give exact answers (for previously noted reasons), I'll state that taking the feat allows you to inflict slightly greater damage than a normal unarmed character at level 3 (the minimum level at which you can meet the BAB requirement), while granting more damage than a 10th level Monk before reaching level 20. I personally think it is an excellent feat for anybody who wants to fight barehanded without taking Monk levels.
The_Normal_Anomaly 02-05-08, 01:15 PM	I have heard that a monk's belt (DMG), improved natural attack (MM), and superior unarmed strike could yield results like what you seem to be hunting.
ToastedAmphibian 02-05-08, 05:25 PM	Superior unarmed strike and monks belt dont stack. Improved natural attack would stack with either the belt or the feat, rasing your highest value up one notch. Also, when Prestige classess get put into WoTC books, they often get cut into smaller peices. Sometimes this results in odd things (See the Invisible Blade entry requierments) There is a website called "The Waking Lands" that has these prestige classes in their original 10 level progressions (Master Thrower and Invisible Blade were actually the same class) My point, however, is that the 10 level reaping mauler class is actually quite good (As opposed to the 5 level one from the book, which is rubbish) At level 1, 5 and 9 it increases your damage dice by one size. This SHOULD stack with superior unarmed strike and improved natural attack... but that would be a call for your DM. http://wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm
wonlee76 02-05-08, 05:48 PM	Superior unarmed strike and monks belt dont stack. Improved natural attack would stack with either the belt or the feat, rasing your highest value up one notch. I don't think INA works with Superior Unarmed Strike but I could be wrong about that. I believe INA works with a monk's unarmed strike because of the fact that a monk's unarmed strike can be enhanced by spells or effects that would normally apply to a natural attack or manufactured weapon. SUS doesn't give you this but its been a while since I read the exact wording behind the feat. The reasoning behind it is that an unarmed strike is not a natural attack which is a defined term and set number of attack types. Monk's unarmed strike is an exception to the general rule.
Paranoid Android 02-05-08, 06:28 PM	I don't think INA works with Superior Unarmed Strike but I could be wrong about that. I believe INA works with a monk's unarmed strike because of the fact that a monk's unarmed strike can be enhanced by spells or effects that would normally apply to a natural attack or manufactured weapon. SUS doesn't give you this but its been a while since I read the exact wording behind the feat. The reasoning behind it is that an unarmed strike is not a natural attack which is a defined term and set number of attack types. Monk's unarmed strike is an exception to the general rule. INA works only with a monk, because the monk's unarmed strike is considered a natural weapon, not simply an unarmed attack, so you have to be a monk to take it. Which kind of makes not taking monk levels in getting it hard. Main 3.5 FAQ pg 38, for people's reference, btw.
CBeyond 02-05-08, 07:28 PM	Superior unarmed strike and monks belt dont stack.Why do these not stack? Thanks!
ToastedAmphibian 02-05-08, 08:22 PM	Why do these not stack? Thanks! Well, you have two items. Item A says: Your unarmed Damage is X where X is the unarmed damage of a level 5 monk of yoru size. Item B says: Your unarmed Damage is Y where Y is a function of your level. They tottaly override eachother. (Yes i know one isnt really an ITEM) INA works only with a monk, because the monk's unarmed strike is considered a natural weapon Yes well alot of people feel that any unarmed strike is a natural weapon. I dont know if i agree with that or not, so obviously ask your DM. At anyrate at level one of the 10lvl reaping mauler class, A reaping mauler's unarmed strike damage is treated both as a manufactured and a natural weapon. So if you go that way you should be fine.
Legdiwena 02-06-08, 08:12 PM	Could also look at Fist of the Forest from CChamp.
Wih 02-06-08, 10:02 PM	Frostrager, from Frostburn, and here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040911a&page=3).
Prince_of_Parkness 02-08-08, 12:21 PM	Id say a feat that allows you to do 1d8 damaged unarmed would fine, 1d6 is too low and 1d10 is a bit ott
dawnbringer 02-08-08, 02:45 PM	Also against CoC. There is a reason i was so vauge. PMing is not against CoC.
Legdiwena 02-08-08, 02:51 PM	Giving out the information in anyway is against the CoC.
dawnbringer 02-08-08, 03:41 PM	not really. As long as you can do it one on one, you can give out information. I've had plenty of people give me information from a book I do not own.
Legdiwena 02-08-08, 03:58 PM	You CAn do anything you want, it's still illegal.
Prince_of_Parkness 02-08-08, 04:27 PM	You CAn do anything you want, it's still illegal. True, but the moderators dont mind if you just give little pieces of information. Hell someone uploaded the entier vow of poverty feat and they havnt deleted the thread
Legdiwena 02-08-08, 04:37 PM	That was an archived thread from 3 years ago, amazed that it hasn't been deleted due to CoC, but meh.
Krusk 02-08-08, 10:49 PM	not really. As long as you can do it one on one, you can give out information. I've had plenty of people give me information from a book I do not own. You can do whatever you want, and if you don't get caught there is no problem, I guess. That dosn't make it legal/right.
Squaba 02-08-08, 11:07 PM	Could someone copy the part of the CoC where it says you cant post information from books and paste it up here?
Prince_of_Parkness 02-09-08, 06:48 AM	Could someone copy the part of the CoC where it says you cant post information from books and paste it up here? Coc aside its still violating copy right laws, since it isnt open game content, but as I said no body minds if you just give small pieces of information even if it is technically illiagal
Prince_of_Parkness 02-09-08, 06:53 AM	That dosn't make it legal/right. Its not legal, but in this case its arguably right. I dont expect someone to go to a book shop and finger thru a bok just to find out how many levels better one feat makes your unarmed damage. If someone asks me how the point buy system works Ill tell them. If someone asks me what the feat devil's luck does, Ill tell them. If someone asks me "Material to make a horde of evil villains" ill tell them to go buy the book
Krusk 02-09-08, 03:42 PM	Its not legal, but in this case its arguably right. I dont expect someone to go to a book shop and finger thru a bok just to find out how many levels better one feat makes your unarmed damage. If someone asks me how the point buy system works Ill tell them. If someone asks me what the feat devil's luck does, Ill tell them. If someone asks me "Material to make a horde of evil villains" ill tell them to go buy the book Right is subjective. You tell him if you want to.
Roderick_BR 02-09-08, 09:45 PM	I'd say that posting it through instant message or email is not illegal. Heck, is it illegal to walk up to a person face to face and say "I found this cool feat that gives you this and that"? It's only illegal to post it in public areas. PMs would be a stretch, but it's safe not to use it. So, find a friend with the book, and that's it. Additionally, if you do get the Tome of Battle, look up the Sword Sage class, and pick the unarmed variant, that effectively makes you a non-sucky monk.
InkBlot 02-11-08, 02:10 PM	Superior Unarmed Strike can be take at 3rd level at the earliest. It lets your unarmed strikes deal as much damage as a halfling Monk. Tome Of Battle in general is very good for unarmed brawlers. Strikes and Boosts add extra damage or other effects, so that you depend less on having a big weapon for damage. There are maneuvers which can do anything a monk can do, except for spell resistance, as well as many things a monk should be able to do but can't (like throw people). This fact lets you mix-and-match maneuvers with any* class you want, to create exactly the kind of unarmed warrior you envision; everything from the drunken dwarf barroom brawler who relies on nothing more than his own grit and guts, to the mystical ninja master of ki. My point, however, is that the 10 level reaping mauler class is actually quite good (As opposed to the 5 level one from the book, which is rubbish) At level 1, 5 and 9 it increases your damage dice by one size. This SHOULD stack with superior unarmed strike and improved natural attack... but that would be a call for your DM. http://wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm The Walking Land's version of Reaping Mauler retains the one aspect that makes it useless to a grappler. It requires Clever Wrestling, which itself has the prerequisite of being medium or smaller. The single most effective thing for a grappler to do is increase her size. If a Reaping Mauler increases in size, she ceases to qualify for her prestige class and loses all the class abilities it granted her. Reaping Mauler is a trap, unless you houserule it. *Maneuvers and Stances can be taken as feats. They're Fighter bonus feats, to boot. The three classes from Tome Of Battle -- Crusader (paladin/marshal/tank), Swordsage (duelist/ninja/monk), and Warblade (fighter/barbarian/duelist/marshal) -- just get more and higher level maneuvers which they can use more often.
ToastedAmphibian 02-11-08, 08:40 PM	The Walking Land's version of Reaping Mauler retains the one aspect that makes it useless to a grappler. It requires Clever Wrestling, which itself has the prerequisite of being medium or smaller. The single most effective thing for a grappler to do is increase her size. If a Reaping Mauler increases in size, she ceases to qualify for her prestige class and loses all the class abilities it granted her. Thats debateable. Obviously, the feat reqs are pretty stupid.... it gives you improved grapple as a bonus feat? Really, if you want to BE a grappler, isnt that usually the FIRST FEAT you take? Now, granted, if you no longer meet the pre-req for a prestige class, you lose its benifits. However, reaping mauler dosnt require you to be medium or small. It requiers you to have clever wrestling. If your no longer medium or small, you lose the USE of clever wrestling, as well as the USE of any feats that have clever wrestling as a pre-req. However, you do still HAVE the feat, which is all that reaping mauler needs. All it does is force you to take a useless* feat and, if yoru naturally large, find someone to shrink you a few sizes when you level up, just long enough to take the feat. *Clever Wrestling is good for people who want to get OUT of a grapple... Kind of a good backup incase you get over your head i suppose, but not really super good for a grappler. The main addition of the 10lvl class is that it makes you more dangerous in a grapple, because it actually increases your damage.